6 ms·

Well, this is terrifyingly/depressingly presently relevant :(. I literally, at this instant, switched over to HN to kill time waiting for stuff to slowly downlo

by xoa 3y ago

Well, this is terrifyingly/depressingly presently relevant :(. I literally, at this instant, switched over to HN to kill time waiting for stuff to slowly download after merely trying to open up a Windows 11 VM under Parallels I made a few months ago for a friend to let them run an old copy of QuickBooks for Windows on his Mac. I have a valid W11 Pro key, everything installed and activated fine back then. Zero changes since. Fire it up, and whoops, Activation Error! Absolutely everything about this entire process with all 3 companies involved is total shit. To start I had to figure out how to even quit Edge which had zero clear way to close it and none of the old alt-F4 or whatever I remembered worked. Then onwards to activation to save us from those evil pirates who have zero of these problems ever. On the Windows side it just gave a cryptic 0xC004F213, so click "Troubleshooting" and it does nothing except "invalid buy a new copy, or contact support". Then close reload and now it gives 0x803fa067, but same thing. So contact support. After wading through tree they say to click the button to contact support, or sign in. You can click the button all you want, does nothing. So sign in. Ok now it lets you give a phone #, and says they'll call you? Two hours later, nothing. No acknowledgement, maybe it'll call tomorrow or something. OK maybe just forget this and buy a new copy of Quickbooks Desktop for Mac. Oh, they've discontinued that. Cloud only. Wait maybe there's a subscription, somewhere. But no they REALLY want you in their cloud subscription and while there are hints it exists I gave up after 30 minutes, probably have to call support. Old standalone copies cannot be had. Try reinstalling with Parallels, bugs out with weird errors, also wants to install all this other random crap. And on and on. So going to try with VMware Fusion, though of course that was just bought by Broadcom and probably will be discontinued, left to rot, or turned into a subscription (and then left to rot). This is all on 8/2.5 ADSL because this is rural northern New England and there isn't even cable with 5 miles of here. Sigh. Remember when you could just pay companies money for a product, and get something that they at least kinda tried to have be ok, and then buy an upgrade if you thought they'd delivered enough value, or not if not, and on your own schedule? And maybe just enter a serial number you'd got and that was it, no internet needed? Good times!

jasonjayr 3y ago
Intuit is very aggressive at forcing updates/upgrades and will shut down activation servers for QB versions less than 4 years old. Good luck trying to open your old backups for legal/accounting reasons......
- chislobog 3y ago
  I went to go look at what the GSA and feds do for QB and ran into something new to me. Many companies that license software will offer terms for a special contract and perpetual licensing. But then in the new order[0] “recent report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) indicates that agencies buy and manage software licenses in a decentralized manner, struggle to create accurate inventories, often purchase unneeded capabilities, and generally do not facilitate better purchasing by sharing pricing or terms and conditions across the Government. Furthermore, most agencies do not have a designated central oversight authority to manage software agreements. This memorandum addresses these and other challenges in information technology And “ Enterprise Software Category Team (ESCT),6 co-managed by the General Services Administration (GSA), the Department of Defense (DoD), and OMB, will guide the development of Government-wide software license agreements for mandatory agency use, and OMB will encourage or direct use of best-in-class existing software licensing agreements. This memorandum further requires agencies to develop implementation plans, in accordance with ESCT guidance, to address how agencies will move from their existing agreements to those mandated by the ESCT. Agencies must also justify and obtain ESCT approval to pursue new agreements that overlap or conflict with the ESCT mandated agreements.” It goes on. Perpetual licenses are a good idea to have as an option because the company or product might disappear, or in some cases, as I have seen, a company will refuse to sell a licensed version of something for less than benevolent reasons. We can all appreciate the efficiency of adding more bureaucracy and lawyers (general counsel) and layers of managers (the various committees you now have to wrangle into agreement). It occurred to me though that part of the utility of small group acquisitions is that different organizations can buy what they need or want when they decide to without this mess, and the licensing can be arranged to suit the need of that organization. I think this also damages the small seller or company that makes niche programs. Perhaps my business gets contracts from small specialized government teams and groups because it’s a better option for them than the Microsoft sized competition, and now they have to deal with the additional mess of justifying this purchase in addition to being on the same contract terms and volume purchase agreements with the Microsoft sized companies as say the entire IRS. So, my quickbooks compatible software for managing and displaying old versions’ files used by a dozen people in Navy purchasing is at odds with a license from quickbooks used by IRS to allow examiners access to older versions. My income becomes maintenance fees to QB. (This is hypothetical) [0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/legacy_drupal_files/omb/memoranda/2016/m-16-12_1.pdf https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/legacy_drupal_...
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
The KDE flavor of Manjaro Linux beckons, friend. Unplug from the Matrix and board the Nebuchadnezzar.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  Why specifically Manjaro or specifically KDE? If anything, I'd recommend a new user use something like Pop_OS!; or at least some more newbie friendly DEB or RPM distro (Mint, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc).
  - oohffyvfg 3y ago
    not onboarding kde sooner is the biggest mistake of open source promoters. gnome was nice when it was as good as kde but gpl. now that gnome just copies apple, which is even worse than not being gpl, kde is clearly the most user focused. and it's mostly gpl now. the amount of usability and configs you get on kde are incomparable today. recommending gnome based distros is a mistake mac-captives make a lot about distros, any well regarded with rolling releases is enough.
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      Three of the four aforementioned distros all offer first class KDE variants. Fedora KDE is considered one of the best KDE distros. Or you can recommend OpenSuse, Kubuntu, etc for an even simpler out of box experience. Jumping to Manjaro/Arch as a first is a terrible idea, and more likely to frustrate new users away from Linux.
      - oohffyvfg 3y ago
        > arch frustrate users i disagree. linux is a learning experience in itself. just don't tell people to fdisk disk alone right from the beginning. but that's the beauty of rolling distros. help them once and mostly forget :) you accept software is not eternal and bugs are there. instead of accepting blue screens/spinning beachball/etc as facts of life, you understand they are like idiot lights on your car dashboard. instead of ignoring you take your car to a mechanic, who will tell you something obvious had you read the manual. Linux is the same. you see a crash, you message the friend who told you to use Linux or google the error. yeah, it's annoying, but only if you live in neverland were comercial software have no bugs. and again, ubuntu/rh/etc does nothing but try to push this lie to opensource.
userbinator 3y ago
to let them run an old copy of QuickBooks for Windows on his Mac Why bother with Win11 to run old software? A Windows VM from the same era would be much more suitable.
- xoa 3y ago
  What's the oldest copy of Windows I can get a new key for today? If I had one for W7 or W8 yeah I'd use it, but I don't. Obviously I'm going to have to start seeking out alternate solutions, undoubtedly there are plenty of spare keys to be had. Or as sibling comment suggests look into a minimal Linux install and getting it going under Wine. But honestly mainly it comes down to that I just kinda expected it to work? I hadn't dealt with Microsoft, or Intuit for that matter, in a very long time. I think last time I did was Windows 7 era and I don't remember it being particularly bad. I sorta just thought, "well, I'll just go get a legit copy of Windows, there's a sale going on even, and it'll have good backwards compat like always and this will all be quick and easy". I mean, clearly you know better, and now I do too, and I'll figure stuff out. This isn't even remotely the most gnarly software I've needed to deal with in the past few weeks. But I didn't expect it to be this much of a PITA either. This is supposed to be a pretty easy glide path, it's not some 18 year old panoramic x-ray imaging software. Edit: Oh goodie, reinstalling and just discovered how stupid irritating it is to have a local account under Windows nowadays. "Cut off internet at the right time, hit shift+f10, type oobe\bypassnro, reboot, shift+f10 again, ipconfig /release, close command prompt" ok. Nice. I mean yeah, making an MS account is free, but this is just a VM and I don't want to bother and don't see why I should need to. I guess most people just go with the flow for this but geez.
  - sneed_chucker 3y ago
    Internet archive has Windows 7 ISOs with product keys. You can verify the SHA256 sums if you're suspicious.
  - oohffyvfg 3y ago
    the good old "it's easier to pirate" issue as usual. sometimes being a paying customer is undesirable for the company so you just get bad service. it's the same with media if you don't want to just consume the latest mass distributed garbage. you obviously won't get sued for running old software at your home. so why bother having more trouble to pay when you're clearly not a desired customer. it's like entering a store and insisting to pay for the free samples and annoying everyone.
dataflow 3y ago
In case this inspires you to take a less orthodox approach: https://youtu.be/M3bezYerYxQ https://youtu.be/M3bezYerYxQ
- xoa 3y ago
  Thank you for the suggestion, I'm perfectly willing to take any approach, plus looks fun to watch while chipping away at this :). I'm just a bit taken aback is all. People talk about "enshittification" recently, and really what's old is new again, I can see why it's considered a cycle. Companies get more and more extreme, people get fed up, resort of alternative measures, competition pushes a rebalance, then it starts to drift again. But it is frustrating, and I guess there is always the fear that advancing hardware control will mean one day they'll be able to really turn the screws in a way harder to escape from. I wish governments would get to the heart of the matter and mandate that people must always have the option for control over the root key store of any hardware they own.
  - concinds 3y ago
    Google "Massgrave Microsoft Activation Scripts"; no need to wait on governments for decades.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by xoa 3y ago

jasonjayr 3y ago

Intuit is very aggressive at forcing updates/upgrades and will shut down activation servers for QB versions less than 4 years old. Good luck trying to open your old backups for legal/accounting reasons......

chislobog 3y ago
I went to go look at what the GSA and feds do for QB and ran into something new to me. Many companies that license software will offer terms for a special contract and perpetual licensing. But then in the new order[0] “recent report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) indicates that agencies buy and manage software licenses in a decentralized manner, struggle to create accurate inventories, often purchase unneeded capabilities, and generally do not facilitate better purchasing by sharing pricing or terms and conditions across the Government. Furthermore, most agencies do not have a designated central oversight authority to manage software agreements. This memorandum addresses these and other challenges in information technology And “ Enterprise Software Category Team (ESCT),6 co-managed by the General Services Administration (GSA), the Department of Defense (DoD), and OMB, will guide the development of Government-wide software license agreements for mandatory agency use, and OMB will encourage or direct use of best-in-class existing software licensing agreements. This memorandum further requires agencies to develop implementation plans, in accordance with ESCT guidance, to address how agencies will move from their existing agreements to those mandated by the ESCT. Agencies must also justify and obtain ESCT approval to pursue new agreements that overlap or conflict with the ESCT mandated agreements.” It goes on. Perpetual licenses are a good idea to have as an option because the company or product might disappear, or in some cases, as I have seen, a company will refuse to sell a licensed version of something for less than benevolent reasons. We can all appreciate the efficiency of adding more bureaucracy and lawyers (general counsel) and layers of managers (the various committees you now have to wrangle into agreement). It occurred to me though that part of the utility of small group acquisitions is that different organizations can buy what they need or want when they decide to without this mess, and the licensing can be arranged to suit the need of that organization. I think this also damages the small seller or company that makes niche programs. Perhaps my business gets contracts from small specialized government teams and groups because it’s a better option for them than the Microsoft sized competition, and now they have to deal with the additional mess of justifying this purchase in addition to being on the same contract terms and volume purchase agreements with the Microsoft sized companies as say the entire IRS. So, my quickbooks compatible software for managing and displaying old versions’ files used by a dozen people in Navy purchasing is at odds with a license from quickbooks used by IRS to allow examiners access to older versions. My income becomes maintenance fees to QB. (This is hypothetical) [0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/legacy_drupal_files/omb/memoranda/2016/m-16-12_1.pdf https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/legacy_drupal_...

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

The KDE flavor of Manjaro Linux beckons, friend. Unplug from the Matrix and board the Nebuchadnezzar.

deaddodo 3y ago
Why specifically Manjaro or specifically KDE? If anything, I'd recommend a new user use something like Pop_OS!; or at least some more newbie friendly DEB or RPM distro (Mint, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc).
- oohffyvfg 3y ago
  not onboarding kde sooner is the biggest mistake of open source promoters. gnome was nice when it was as good as kde but gpl. now that gnome just copies apple, which is even worse than not being gpl, kde is clearly the most user focused. and it's mostly gpl now. the amount of usability and configs you get on kde are incomparable today. recommending gnome based distros is a mistake mac-captives make a lot about distros, any well regarded with rolling releases is enough.
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    Three of the four aforementioned distros all offer first class KDE variants. Fedora KDE is considered one of the best KDE distros. Or you can recommend OpenSuse, Kubuntu, etc for an even simpler out of box experience. Jumping to Manjaro/Arch as a first is a terrible idea, and more likely to frustrate new users away from Linux.
    - oohffyvfg 3y ago
      > arch frustrate users i disagree. linux is a learning experience in itself. just don't tell people to fdisk disk alone right from the beginning. but that's the beauty of rolling distros. help them once and mostly forget :) you accept software is not eternal and bugs are there. instead of accepting blue screens/spinning beachball/etc as facts of life, you understand they are like idiot lights on your car dashboard. instead of ignoring you take your car to a mechanic, who will tell you something obvious had you read the manual. Linux is the same. you see a crash, you message the friend who told you to use Linux or google the error. yeah, it's annoying, but only if you live in neverland were comercial software have no bugs. and again, ubuntu/rh/etc does nothing but try to push this lie to opensource.

userbinator 3y ago

to let them run an old copy of QuickBooks for Windows on his Mac Why bother with Win11 to run old software? A Windows VM from the same era would be much more suitable.

xoa 3y ago
What's the oldest copy of Windows I can get a new key for today? If I had one for W7 or W8 yeah I'd use it, but I don't. Obviously I'm going to have to start seeking out alternate solutions, undoubtedly there are plenty of spare keys to be had. Or as sibling comment suggests look into a minimal Linux install and getting it going under Wine. But honestly mainly it comes down to that I just kinda expected it to work? I hadn't dealt with Microsoft, or Intuit for that matter, in a very long time. I think last time I did was Windows 7 era and I don't remember it being particularly bad. I sorta just thought, "well, I'll just go get a legit copy of Windows, there's a sale going on even, and it'll have good backwards compat like always and this will all be quick and easy". I mean, clearly you know better, and now I do too, and I'll figure stuff out. This isn't even remotely the most gnarly software I've needed to deal with in the past few weeks. But I didn't expect it to be this much of a PITA either. This is supposed to be a pretty easy glide path, it's not some 18 year old panoramic x-ray imaging software. Edit: Oh goodie, reinstalling and just discovered how stupid irritating it is to have a local account under Windows nowadays. "Cut off internet at the right time, hit shift+f10, type oobe\bypassnro, reboot, shift+f10 again, ipconfig /release, close command prompt" ok. Nice. I mean yeah, making an MS account is free, but this is just a VM and I don't want to bother and don't see why I should need to. I guess most people just go with the flow for this but geez.
- sneed_chucker 3y ago
  Internet archive has Windows 7 ISOs with product keys. You can verify the SHA256 sums if you're suspicious.
- oohffyvfg 3y ago
  the good old "it's easier to pirate" issue as usual. sometimes being a paying customer is undesirable for the company so you just get bad service. it's the same with media if you don't want to just consume the latest mass distributed garbage. you obviously won't get sued for running old software at your home. so why bother having more trouble to pay when you're clearly not a desired customer. it's like entering a store and insisting to pay for the free samples and annoying everyone.

dataflow 3y ago

In case this inspires you to take a less orthodox approach: https://youtu.be/M3bezYerYxQ https://youtu.be/M3bezYerYxQ

xoa 3y ago
Thank you for the suggestion, I'm perfectly willing to take any approach, plus looks fun to watch while chipping away at this :). I'm just a bit taken aback is all. People talk about "enshittification" recently, and really what's old is new again, I can see why it's considered a cycle. Companies get more and more extreme, people get fed up, resort of alternative measures, competition pushes a rebalance, then it starts to drift again. But it is frustrating, and I guess there is always the fear that advancing hardware control will mean one day they'll be able to really turn the screws in a way harder to escape from. I wish governments would get to the heart of the matter and mandate that people must always have the option for control over the root key store of any hardware they own.
- concinds 3y ago
  Google "Massgrave Microsoft Activation Scripts"; no need to wait on governments for decades.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]