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Before anyone goes evangelizing Signal, make sure to tell your iOS friends that if they ever lose their phone they lose every message they ever sent on Signal w

Before anyone goes evangelizing Signal, make sure to tell your iOS friends that if they ever lose their phone they lose every message they ever sent on Signal with no way to restore them, and the same applies if they ever get an Android phone (latter also true of iMessage, but WhatsApp is totally cross-platform).

godelski 3y ago
While I agree with your point and I think you're right, let's remember that part of the issue is Apple. Might be worth reading this comment from the devs[0]. I wish the feature existed too, but I get it and don't think all blame is on them. For lost devices, well... is that a bug? Where would the backup come from? Signal is anti-cloud, as they should be. BUT, I do think people store too much data. Pictures, messages, etc. I think we're getting very little value for maintaining all of this and that it is mostly laziness. Don't get me wrong, I do it too and I like it and it does come in handy time to time, but my life wouldn't significantly change were this not the case. It's something I'll be irked about when I hit the speed bump the first time but move on quickly (like quitting Facebook). 99.999% of the time it would just result in me asking someone about something months ago and it's never been anything important (because if it was, I'd have made that information redundant, and that's not a action because Signal, that's an action because the information is important and I do this wherever that type of info comes from.) Truth is that >>99.9% of that data is junk. It's only the nuggets we care about and I think it's a bit weird we treat it all the same. [0] https://community.signalusers.org/t/ios-backup-keeping-message-history-when-switching-phones/1736/182 https://community.signalusers.org/t/ios-backup-keeping-messa...
- walterbell 3y ago
  Can't Signal export the local messages? Wire on iOS has local export.
  - godelski 3y ago
    The post addresses that a bit, but it is a few years old now. I'm not a app dev so I have no clue about these systems. But the claim is that Apple doesn't give you a lot of control and that sounds like a very Apple thing to me. I mean aren't they well known for "my way or the highway" attitude?
    - jwells89 3y ago
      One thing that the post oddly omits but has been possible and reasonably easy to implement on iOS for ages is simply bundling up messages, keys, etc into an archive in internal app storage and then letting the user AirDrop it to a Mac or another iOS device. I might be missing something but this is the sort of thing a capable engineer can have working smoothly in somewhere between an evening and a few days. If they want to extend this transfer ability to other platforms, they could do what some comic/manga reader and video player apps have done and bundle in a tiny web server that allows the user to download/upload files with a web browser protected by a username and password, which is started/stopped as needed. As a bonus they could offer this on Android too for wireless backup management. There’s also nothing stopping them from building Signal clients such that they’re able to directly connect to each other over the local network and do whatever transfers are required that way. Apple doesn’t prohibit of any of these. I wonder why they weren’t explored.
      - walterbell 3y ago
        > bundling up messages, keys, etc into an archive in internal app storage and then letting the user AirDrop it to a Mac or another iOS device. Wire E2EE messenger on iOS does something similar and allows the user to save the file to any storage provider.
      - godelski 3y ago
        > There’s also nothing stopping them from building Signal clients such that they’re able to directly connect to each other over the local network and do whatever transfers are required that way. There's also nothing stopping you (or anyone else here) from adding such a feature. Either into the official, Molly, or one of the other forks. You may also be interested in this feature request. https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-airdrop/37402 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-airdrop/37402
- jwells89 3y ago
  The thing about message history is that many of the times it’s been useful, I’ve had no way of knowing the messages had any importance in the moment. It’s only been months or years down the road that they’re needed, by which point the person I’d been conversing with has likely forgotten the message content and so asking them again isn’t helpful.
balderdash 3y ago
I actually think one of the best parts about signal is the disappearing messages feature

godelski 3y ago

While I agree with your point and I think you're right, let's remember that part of the issue is Apple. Might be worth reading this comment from the devs[0]. I wish the feature existed too, but I get it and don't think all blame is on them. For lost devices, well... is that a bug? Where would the backup come from? Signal is anti-cloud, as they should be. BUT, I do think people store too much data. Pictures, messages, etc. I think we're getting very little value for maintaining all of this and that it is mostly laziness. Don't get me wrong, I do it too and I like it and it does come in handy time to time, but my life wouldn't significantly change were this not the case. It's something I'll be irked about when I hit the speed bump the first time but move on quickly (like quitting Facebook). 99.999% of the time it would just result in me asking someone about something months ago and it's never been anything important (because if it was, I'd have made that information redundant, and that's not a action because Signal, that's an action because the information is important and I do this wherever that type of info comes from.) Truth is that >>99.9% of that data is junk. It's only the nuggets we care about and I think it's a bit weird we treat it all the same. [0] https://community.signalusers.org/t/ios-backup-keeping-message-history-when-switching-phones/1736/182 https://community.signalusers.org/t/ios-backup-keeping-messa...

walterbell 3y ago
Can't Signal export the local messages? Wire on iOS has local export.
- godelski 3y ago
  The post addresses that a bit, but it is a few years old now. I'm not a app dev so I have no clue about these systems. But the claim is that Apple doesn't give you a lot of control and that sounds like a very Apple thing to me. I mean aren't they well known for "my way or the highway" attitude?
  - jwells89 3y ago
    One thing that the post oddly omits but has been possible and reasonably easy to implement on iOS for ages is simply bundling up messages, keys, etc into an archive in internal app storage and then letting the user AirDrop it to a Mac or another iOS device. I might be missing something but this is the sort of thing a capable engineer can have working smoothly in somewhere between an evening and a few days. If they want to extend this transfer ability to other platforms, they could do what some comic/manga reader and video player apps have done and bundle in a tiny web server that allows the user to download/upload files with a web browser protected by a username and password, which is started/stopped as needed. As a bonus they could offer this on Android too for wireless backup management. There’s also nothing stopping them from building Signal clients such that they’re able to directly connect to each other over the local network and do whatever transfers are required that way. Apple doesn’t prohibit of any of these. I wonder why they weren’t explored.
    - walterbell 3y ago
      > bundling up messages, keys, etc into an archive in internal app storage and then letting the user AirDrop it to a Mac or another iOS device. Wire E2EE messenger on iOS does something similar and allows the user to save the file to any storage provider.
    - godelski 3y ago
      > There’s also nothing stopping them from building Signal clients such that they’re able to directly connect to each other over the local network and do whatever transfers are required that way. There's also nothing stopping you (or anyone else here) from adding such a feature. Either into the official, Molly, or one of the other forks. You may also be interested in this feature request. https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-airdrop/37402 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-airdrop/37402
jwells89 3y ago
The thing about message history is that many of the times it’s been useful, I’ve had no way of knowing the messages had any importance in the moment. It’s only been months or years down the road that they’re needed, by which point the person I’d been conversing with has likely forgotten the message content and so asking them again isn’t helpful.

balderdash 3y ago

I actually think one of the best parts about signal is the disappearing messages feature