7 ms·

Unless you live in the EU and have laws that should protect you from that.

by worldsayshi 3y ago

seniorivn 3y ago
incentives cannot be fixed with just prohibitive laws, war on drags should've taught you something
- garbagewoman 3y ago
  War on drags? I thought that was just in Florida
  - ineedaj0b 3y ago
    please consider commenting more thoughtfully. I understand this is a joke but we don't want this site to devolve into Reddit.
    - Pengtuzi 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - ineedaj0b 3y ago
        I don't have a flag button or option my account is new
        zabzonk 3y ago
        click on time since posted to get a flag button - exactly why hn works this way is a bit of a mystery, to me at least
        ineedaj0b 3y ago
        Thank you, I had no idea!
    - riquisimo 3y ago
      It is sad that we live in a world where this could be interpreted both ways.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  Drugs… Oooohh. I get it now.
- jpk 3y ago
  Laws, and more specifically their penalties, are precisely for fixing incentives. It's just a matter of setting a penalty that outweighs the natural incentive you want to override. e.g., Is it more expensive to respect privacy, or pay the fine for not doing so? PII could, and should, be made radioactive by privacy regulations and their associated penalties.
- worldsayshi 3y ago
  It's not a complete fix but I'm sure a law with teeth can make a big difference. There's a big difference in being data mined by a big corp with the law on its side and a criminal organisation or their customers that has to cover their tracks to not get multi million dollar fines.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
Is it true or more of a myth? Based on my online read, Europe has "think of the children" narrative as common if not more than other parts of the world. They tried hard to ban encryption in apps many times.[1] [1]: https://proton.me/blog/eu-council-encryption-vote-delayed https://proton.me/blog/eu-council-encryption-vote-delayed
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > They tried hard to ban encryption in apps many times. That's true of most places. We should applaud the EU's human rights court for leading the way by banning this behavior: https://www.eureporter.co/world/human-rights-category/european-court-of-human-rights-echr/2024/02/14/european-court-of-human-rights-bans-weakening-of-secure-end-to-endencryption-the-end-of-eus-chat-control-csar-mass-surveillance-plans/ https://www.eureporter.co/world/human-rights-category/europe...
- devjab 3y ago
  Democratic governance is complicated. It’s never black and white and it’s perfectly possible for parts of the EU to be working to end encryption while another part works toward enhancing citizen privacy rights. Often they’re not even supported by the same politicians, but since it’s not a winners takes all sort of thing, it can all happen simultaneously and sometimes they can even come up with some “interesting” proposals that directly interfere with each other. That being said there is a difference between the US and the EU in regards to how these things are approached. Where the US is more likely to let private companies destroy privacy while keeping public agencies leashed it’s the opposite in Europe. Truth be told, it’s not like the US initiatives are really working since agencies like the NSA seem to blatantly ignore all laws anyway, which cause some scandals here in Europe as well. In Denmark our Secret Police isn’t allowed to spy on us without warrants, but our changing governments has had different secret agreements with the US to let the US monitor our internet traffic. Which is sort of how it is, and the scandal isn’t so much that, it’s how our Secret Police is allowed to get information about Danish citizens from the NSA without warrants, letting our secret police spy on us by getting the data they aren’t allowed to gather themselves from the NSA who are allowed to gather it. Anyway, it’s a complicated mess, and you have so many branches of the bureaucracy and so many NGOs pulling in different directions that you can’t say that the EU is pro or anti privacy the way you want to. Because it’s both of those things and many more at the same time. I think the only thing the EU unanimously agrees on (sort of) is to limit private companies access to citizen privacy data. Especially non-EU organisations. Which is very hard to enforce because most of the used platforms and even software isn’t European.
tekni5 3y ago
What happens if it's a datamining third party bot? That can check your social media accounts, create an in-depth profile on you, every image, video, post you've made has been recorded and understood. It knows everything about you, every product you use, where you have been, what you like, what you hate, everything packaged and ready to be sold to an advertiser, or the government, etc.
- gnepon 3y ago
  Setting our social media accounts to private should solve most of that. Otherwise we will have to put less of our lives on public platforms.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Public sector agencies and law enforcement are generally exempt (or have special carve outs) in European privacy regulations.
Nextgrid 3y ago
That's only on paper - in practice the GDPR has a major enforcement problem.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  This + everything is about consent (cookie banner and all) So if your job means you use a specific OS with a specific Office Suite in the cloud and that office suite in the cloud incorporate AI and you only get half the features available if you don't consent, you as an employee end up kind of forced to consent anyway, GPDR or not.

Unless you live in the EU and have laws that should protect you from that.

seniorivn 3y ago

incentives cannot be fixed with just prohibitive laws, war on drags should've taught you something

garbagewoman 3y ago
War on drags? I thought that was just in Florida
- ineedaj0b 3y ago
  please consider commenting more thoughtfully. I understand this is a joke but we don't want this site to devolve into Reddit.
  - Pengtuzi 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ineedaj0b 3y ago
      I don't have a flag button or option my account is new
      - zabzonk 3y ago
        click on time since posted to get a flag button - exactly why hn works this way is a bit of a mystery, to me at least
        ineedaj0b 3y ago
        Thank you, I had no idea!
  - riquisimo 3y ago
    It is sad that we live in a world where this could be interpreted both ways.
SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
Drugs… Oooohh. I get it now.
jpk 3y ago
Laws, and more specifically their penalties, are precisely for fixing incentives. It's just a matter of setting a penalty that outweighs the natural incentive you want to override. e.g., Is it more expensive to respect privacy, or pay the fine for not doing so? PII could, and should, be made radioactive by privacy regulations and their associated penalties.
worldsayshi 3y ago
It's not a complete fix but I'm sure a law with teeth can make a big difference. There's a big difference in being data mined by a big corp with the law on its side and a criminal organisation or their customers that has to cover their tracks to not get multi million dollar fines.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

Is it true or more of a myth? Based on my online read, Europe has "think of the children" narrative as common if not more than other parts of the world. They tried hard to ban encryption in apps many times.[1] [1]: https://proton.me/blog/eu-council-encryption-vote-delayed https://proton.me/blog/eu-council-encryption-vote-delayed

smoldesu 3y ago
> They tried hard to ban encryption in apps many times. That's true of most places. We should applaud the EU's human rights court for leading the way by banning this behavior: https://www.eureporter.co/world/human-rights-category/european-court-of-human-rights-echr/2024/02/14/european-court-of-human-rights-bans-weakening-of-secure-end-to-endencryption-the-end-of-eus-chat-control-csar-mass-surveillance-plans/ https://www.eureporter.co/world/human-rights-category/europe...
devjab 3y ago
Democratic governance is complicated. It’s never black and white and it’s perfectly possible for parts of the EU to be working to end encryption while another part works toward enhancing citizen privacy rights. Often they’re not even supported by the same politicians, but since it’s not a winners takes all sort of thing, it can all happen simultaneously and sometimes they can even come up with some “interesting” proposals that directly interfere with each other. That being said there is a difference between the US and the EU in regards to how these things are approached. Where the US is more likely to let private companies destroy privacy while keeping public agencies leashed it’s the opposite in Europe. Truth be told, it’s not like the US initiatives are really working since agencies like the NSA seem to blatantly ignore all laws anyway, which cause some scandals here in Europe as well. In Denmark our Secret Police isn’t allowed to spy on us without warrants, but our changing governments has had different secret agreements with the US to let the US monitor our internet traffic. Which is sort of how it is, and the scandal isn’t so much that, it’s how our Secret Police is allowed to get information about Danish citizens from the NSA without warrants, letting our secret police spy on us by getting the data they aren’t allowed to gather themselves from the NSA who are allowed to gather it. Anyway, it’s a complicated mess, and you have so many branches of the bureaucracy and so many NGOs pulling in different directions that you can’t say that the EU is pro or anti privacy the way you want to. Because it’s both of those things and many more at the same time. I think the only thing the EU unanimously agrees on (sort of) is to limit private companies access to citizen privacy data. Especially non-EU organisations. Which is very hard to enforce because most of the used platforms and even software isn’t European.

tekni5 3y ago

What happens if it's a datamining third party bot? That can check your social media accounts, create an in-depth profile on you, every image, video, post you've made has been recorded and understood. It knows everything about you, every product you use, where you have been, what you like, what you hate, everything packaged and ready to be sold to an advertiser, or the government, etc.

gnepon 3y ago
Setting our social media accounts to private should solve most of that. Otherwise we will have to put less of our lives on public platforms.

spacebanana7 3y ago

Public sector agencies and law enforcement are generally exempt (or have special carve outs) in European privacy regulations.

Nextgrid 3y ago

That's only on paper - in practice the GDPR has a major enforcement problem.

prmoustache 3y ago
This + everything is about consent (cookie banner and all) So if your job means you use a specific OS with a specific Office Suite in the cloud and that office suite in the cloud incorporate AI and you only get half the features available if you don't consent, you as an employee end up kind of forced to consent anyway, GPDR or not.