5 ms·

> Why is a camera involved in purchasing coffee with a card? Genuine question. Was there an issue of people stealing coffee cards, so they used facial-ID matchi

by ethbr1 3y ago

> Why is a camera involved in purchasing coffee with a card? Genuine question. Was there an issue of people stealing coffee cards, so they used facial-ID matching? There's huge loss/fraud prevention value in creating visual audit trails. You don't need to do facial ID matching to recognize recurring theft. You just need a historical photo to correlate who used a card (that you subsequently might learn was a fraudulent charge). Same way CCTV cameras are used in retail.

mistrial9 3y ago
> huge loss/fraud prevention value in a company owned cafeteria, for ordinary pay-per-purchase coffee ? where is the "loss" ? better question - is management addicted to spying here?
- taeric 3y ago
  I think the easy read is that the machine is a commercial machine that can be deployed in places where the functionality is needed. That is, this is not a custom machine for this location. (The story states that the coffee is free in this location.)
  - 1024core 3y ago
    Occam's Razor.
- freejazz 3y ago
  >in a company owned cafeteria, for ordinary pay-per-purchase coffee ? Did you read the thread you are responding to? They said they don't use the camera for this exact reason.
- petsfed 3y ago
  I've worked at several places that had self-serve snack bins that you were expected to pay for, but the machine was just a pay kiosk, not a vending machine. Typically, the way these operations work is that either the employer contracts out the snack bin to a vendor, or the employer buys the snacks themselves, then charges the employees for them. In either case, if the expectation is to pay for the snacks, and you don't, that's theft. I have complicated opinions about whether or not an employer should charge their own employees for break-room snacks, but once an employer decides that they should charge for the snacks, then the loss is clear when a snack is taken without paying.
dunham 3y ago
> Same way CCTV cameras are used in retail Back around 2003 a coworker thought she left her credit card at a store (I think Target). She called them, they asked her to read the number off of the receipt, pulled up the video of her transaction, and told her she had put the card back in her wallet/purse. I was surprised they had that level of integration and can't imagine what they've got these days.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Wow. On the one hand, I'm not surprised at all that there are security people in the company that can instantly pull up security cam footage of a register from the receipt number. That makes total sense. But on the other hand, I never would have guessed that a customer service rep would have access to the system -- or even that if they had to transfer it to the security department, that the security department would be allowed to use the footage for anything customer-facing like that. Still, that's kinda cool and helpful! Assuming it can't be used for any kind of nefarious invasion-of-privacy uses...
  - infecto 3y ago
    If I left something at a store I would be calling the store itself which I think to this day will eventually get you an internal store employee. Seems like that would be an easy bounce to the security person.
  - araes 3y ago
    There's a lot of ATMs in Targets. If they have that much watching, I think I want to stand with my hand over the buttons now. Although someone could probably watch your fingers at the checkout lane put in your pin. Camera script to correlate fingers to access pins automatedly. Machine vision is so much more advanced. Four finger movements, four numbers, tada, debit card access. I could probably write that with ML Kit. Correlated to your exact receipt, purchases, and time of purchase (with enough fidelity to say "you put your card in your pocket at ##:##"). Track your card through the system, and what bank/clearing house is passing the transaction. When did this exact number amount of money go through and where did the lines send the data? What account was the final transaction processed through?

by ethbr1 3y ago

mistrial9 3y ago

> huge loss/fraud prevention value in a company owned cafeteria, for ordinary pay-per-purchase coffee ? where is the "loss" ? better question - is management addicted to spying here?

taeric 3y ago
I think the easy read is that the machine is a commercial machine that can be deployed in places where the functionality is needed. That is, this is not a custom machine for this location. (The story states that the coffee is free in this location.)
- 1024core 3y ago
  Occam's Razor.
freejazz 3y ago
>in a company owned cafeteria, for ordinary pay-per-purchase coffee ? Did you read the thread you are responding to? They said they don't use the camera for this exact reason.
petsfed 3y ago
I've worked at several places that had self-serve snack bins that you were expected to pay for, but the machine was just a pay kiosk, not a vending machine. Typically, the way these operations work is that either the employer contracts out the snack bin to a vendor, or the employer buys the snacks themselves, then charges the employees for them. In either case, if the expectation is to pay for the snacks, and you don't, that's theft. I have complicated opinions about whether or not an employer should charge their own employees for break-room snacks, but once an employer decides that they should charge for the snacks, then the loss is clear when a snack is taken without paying.

dunham 3y ago

> Same way CCTV cameras are used in retail Back around 2003 a coworker thought she left her credit card at a store (I think Target). She called them, they asked her to read the number off of the receipt, pulled up the video of her transaction, and told her she had put the card back in her wallet/purse. I was surprised they had that level of integration and can't imagine what they've got these days.

crazygringo 3y ago
Wow. On the one hand, I'm not surprised at all that there are security people in the company that can instantly pull up security cam footage of a register from the receipt number. That makes total sense. But on the other hand, I never would have guessed that a customer service rep would have access to the system -- or even that if they had to transfer it to the security department, that the security department would be allowed to use the footage for anything customer-facing like that. Still, that's kinda cool and helpful! Assuming it can't be used for any kind of nefarious invasion-of-privacy uses...
- infecto 3y ago
  If I left something at a store I would be calling the store itself which I think to this day will eventually get you an internal store employee. Seems like that would be an easy bounce to the security person.
- araes 3y ago
  There's a lot of ATMs in Targets. If they have that much watching, I think I want to stand with my hand over the buttons now. Although someone could probably watch your fingers at the checkout lane put in your pin. Camera script to correlate fingers to access pins automatedly. Machine vision is so much more advanced. Four finger movements, four numbers, tada, debit card access. I could probably write that with ML Kit. Correlated to your exact receipt, purchases, and time of purchase (with enough fidelity to say "you put your card in your pocket at ##:##"). Track your card through the system, and what bank/clearing house is passing the transaction. When did this exact number amount of money go through and where did the lines send the data? What account was the final transaction processed through?