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I highly doubt ADHD is a survival mechanism. It comes with a vast degree of side-effects like emotional control, sensory issues, ability to focus, and memory re
by kayodelycaon 3y ago
I highly doubt ADHD is a survival mechanism. It comes with a vast degree of side-effects like emotional control, sensory issues, ability to focus, and memory recall.
It's like saying severe anxiety is linked to evolutionary success because anxious people pay more attention to the things around them.
- grimgrin 3y agoNot exactly in disagreement with this concept: > In the 21st century we may have pathologized ADHD as a negative disorder, but that could be just because these characteristics simply don’t easily suit the world we have constructed. In a different context, it is possible that someone with ADHD could be a saviour to a tribe by restlessly exploring new pastures.
- AlwaysRock 3y agoI mean... This study used a pretty direct test: "Around 450 people participated in the experiment, and all were simultaneously screened for ADHD symptoms. Unsurprisingly, the researchers found those with higher ADHD scores moved on to new bushes sooner than others but more importantly, those with ADHD also tended to collect higher volumes of berries overall."
- hanniabu 3y agoThis actually makes perfect sense
- falcolas 3y agoI have a problem with their test for ADHD - two things. One, it's a 6 question test. Pretty limited. Two, the test diagnosed half of the participants as having the equivalent of clinical diagnosis of ADHD, when the global diagnosis rate is closer to 5%. Huge red flag. They used a black box AI tool to diagnose folks. IMO, this was a bad choice for a study.
- myth_drannon 3y agoIt's a genetic mutation per article. So it's possibly a beneficial mutation in evolutionary terms despite side effects because it persisted. Similar to sickle cell disease (which is also a genetic mutation) in people of African descent which protects from malaria.
- bowsamic 3y ago> It's like saying severe anxiety is linked to evolutionary success because anxious people pay more attention to the things around them. And? That could be true...
- brodouevencode 3y agobut hardly conclusive
- scott_w 3y agoIf only someone was doing research on neurodiverse behavioural traits. Maybe try to identify people displaying those traits and put them into simulations of conditions that we think prehistoric humans lived in.
- bowsamic 3y agoSure but the OP made it sound ridiculous on the face of it, but it sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me
- notfed 3y agoPoe's law is strong here. Anxiety obviously evolved as an adaptive trait.
- hirvi74 3y agoAll mammals can exhibit it. I do not think anxiety is a disorder, but rather a natural response. It's literally our "fight or flight" mechanism. I think the disorder part comes from the fact that such mechanisms are being hit constantly for so many people that it causes disorder in one's life. There is no rest for the system, and it's constantly under some sort of strain. Yes, anxiety might save us from a saber-tooth tiger, but I do not think situations like that were an all-day-every-day kind of occurrence like the things that cause anxiety in today's time.
- shric 3y agoADHD doesn't need to be free of negatives as long as it improves survival and reproductive chances. The inability to focus and lack of memory recall, for example, may either not matter or just be negligible compared to other factors. While ADHD does lead to focus problems, people with ADHD are usually just as good at focusing as anyone else when their life depends on it.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago> repoructive Scooby?
- shric 3y agoFixed. For those not familiar with the slang, "Scooby" is apparently a response to say one doesn't understand what you're talking about and could use a clue. However, even a Google search on the typo of "repoructive" was able to reveal what I meant with zero context.
- notfed 3y agoI thought they were referring to Scooby Doo, a cartoon dog who has a speech impediment.
- HumblyTossed 3y agoYes, exactly this.
- HumblyTossed 3y agoReally? I mean it as in "Scooby Doo". When I read it, it sounded like his voice in my head.
- pjdesno 3y agoUnless circumstances never change, there's always value to a population in having a spectrum for any trait. It's also likely that the specific characteristics that best position individuals for success as modern white collar workers were optimal for 99% of the evolutionary timeline of human existence. If mild to moderate ADHD offers an advantage in a high mortality setting, the loss of individuals with more extreme symptoms isn't going to make much of a difference in selection pressure. (sickle cell anemia is an extreme example of this)
- AdamN 3y agoThere are many conditions that confer a narrow fitness advantage and have significant disadvantages too: sickle cell anemia (malaria resistance), diabetes (cold tolerance) are two I can think of off the top of my head. Here's an interesting book on the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_Sickest_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_Sickest_(book)
- imbnwa 3y agoTBF evolution doesn't give a hoot about side effects. It is not an intelligence. Moreover, human communities provide massive shielding for diverse traits by being near top of the food chain (when we're in armed groups).
- InSteady 3y agoFurthermore, each individual human has not been optimized for solo survival, we have (generally speaking) been optimized for group survival in which mix of behavioral traits/strategies is beneficial to the group. Individuals with traits that would be suboptimal if they were out there on their own can sometimes provide a great deal of value to the group under the right circumstances. Even if little Jane ADHD taxes resources more than other group members on the average year, perhaps her unique behavioral traits open the possibility of saving the entire group from starvation during an atypical hunting/foraging year.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- imbnwa 3y agoSomewhere in here is a basis for a critique of the pervasiveness of invidiualism in America
- kstrauser 3y agoADHD isn’t the inability to focus. It’s the inability to focus on something that’s not interesting. In an environment where one isn’t obligated to sit at a desk and memorize things for 8 hours straight, that may not be as much of an issue. Amazingly, anxiety also decreases greatly when one’s not worried about being unable to care about whatever boring thing is being inflicted upon them this month. I’m glad I had such things inflicted on me in interest of making me a more well rounded human. But left to my own devices, young me would have escaped to a library every single day and memorized every book on the subjects I liked. If we lived in a placetime where that were a viable option, ADHD vs Education wouldn’t have been such a problem for me.
- hirvi74 3y agoADHD is an attention regulation disorder not an attention capacity disorder. As much as ADHD is: > 'It’s the inability to focus on something that’s not interesting' ADHD is also the inability to stop focusing on something that’s interesting.
- ksenzee 3y agoEver hear someone describe their anxiety as “always being on the lookout for a saber-toothed tiger attack”? I have very little difficulty imagining environments where anxiety is linked to evolutionary success.
- notfed 3y agoThat anxiety sounds warranted, but why are attractive members of the opposite sex saber-toothed tigers?
- hirvi74 3y agoBecause the term "cougar" has a different meaning.
- francisofascii 3y agoGreat question. Maybe because the stakes are high in either case.