2 ms·

> Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. Just a talking point - and the US has one of the most extensive criminal justice apparatuses of any co

> Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. Just a talking point - and the US has one of the most extensive criminal justice apparatuses of any country. This article is about Canada - which has largely failed to control its organized crime+ports situation, unlike authorities in the US where most organized crime is organized from abroad and so difficult to disrupt but also less effective.

nonethewiser 3y ago
[flagged]
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand - you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > 1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. Besides, what a ridiculous thing to say. This is the discussion at hand, partially by virtue of you talking about it. > you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. So you agree they are clearly in the wrong with this one case then? Besides, this case is a result of policy set by the largest city in the country. We can look at policies in other cities like LA and SF. They do nothing to dispel the fact that the policies on crime are very weak. > 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. They were released in 4 hours then fled the city > 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world. And no one is criticizing that it exists. The judgment is just extremely poor sometimes. Wouldn't you agree the judgment was poor in this case? Do you think it was the right decision to release them after 4 hours?
- jakelazaroff 3y ago
  That anecdote is a non sequitur, but nonetheless: I assume you didn't see the full video, where it turned out that the police assaulted the "illegals" unprovoked? https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/02/08/times-square-migrants-arrests-body-camera-footage-contradicts-nypd-account/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/02/08/times-square-migrants-arr... That Fox News article is mostly information-free, but my takeaway is that it's blaming "bail reform" for the release of the people the police assaulted, which is abjectly false: they were charged with a violent felony, which means the judge — a prosecutor for almost two decades! — could have set bail.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    I mean - an arrest, even if wrongful, is not the same as an assault. I don’t think I have the ability to judge what is a wrongful arrest simply from the video. This video does not really vindicate the people attacking the cops imo.
    - jakelazaroff 3y ago
      I'm going to stop responding because this thread is off topic, but this is exactly what a culture of lawlessness looks like. The police very clearly assaulted someone on camera, and you're bending over backwards to find a way to exculpate them. There's a reason the judge declined to set bail.
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        > I'm going to stop responding because this thread is off topic We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. > There's a reason the judge declined to set bail. And the reason is there isn't the willpower to hold criminals accountable.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > I assume you didn't see the full video, where it turned out that the police assaulted the "illegals" unprovoked? I did see the full video and that's not assault. The police are well within their right to break up a congregation of disorderly juveniles outside homeless shelters. When they resisted that they arrested them. Good. Why are you bending over backwards to protect people with this sort of history? > At the time of his arrest, he was already walking free despite more than a dozen pending larceny charges, including six felonies related to credit card theft. > Some, but not all, of the suspects and their associates are part of an "Oliver Twist"-style group of Venezuelan pickpockets who operate a ring around Times Square and other tourist attractions, law enforcement sources told Fox News Digital Friday. https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegals-who-caught-bus-out-nyc-after-attack-police-may-have-gotten-free-ride-us-taxpayers-sources https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegals-who-caught-bus-out-nyc-a...
bdw5204 3y ago
According to the US Supreme Court, the police have no duty to protect citizens[0], even if they obtain a court-issued protective order. Cars are insecure on purpose because people accidentally lock their keys inside all the time so locksmiths need to be able to get into them. Likewise, locks on homes are insecure on purpose because people lock themselves out. The entire system of locks is based on the assumption that crime is rare and criminals will pick the easiest targets. If crime ceases to be rare, it falls apart very quickly. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  There is no developed country in the world that does not have legal and LE discretion. It’s only the fact that the US has a common law system that this case even got far at all. Go find me somewhere where you can successfully sue the government for not arresting someone. And again: this is a case about Canada - so this has literally 0 relevance to the topic at hand.
  - eli 3y ago
    Discretion about whether or not to protect a citizen?
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      Are there any examples where that is the case?
      - eli 3y ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
        HPsquared 3y ago
notatoad 3y ago
>This article is about Canada but really it applies to the US as well, since the US has a similar rate of car theft (~280 thefts per 100k people, vs ~220 in canada, if you trust statista) and is also working to ban the flipper zero.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  Canada has much more non-recovered car theft where (especially luxury) cars are stolen and shipped off.

nonethewiser 3y ago

[flagged]

whimsicalism 3y ago
1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand - you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > 1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. Besides, what a ridiculous thing to say. This is the discussion at hand, partially by virtue of you talking about it. > you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. So you agree they are clearly in the wrong with this one case then? Besides, this case is a result of policy set by the largest city in the country. We can look at policies in other cities like LA and SF. They do nothing to dispel the fact that the policies on crime are very weak. > 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. They were released in 4 hours then fled the city > 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world. And no one is criticizing that it exists. The judgment is just extremely poor sometimes. Wouldn't you agree the judgment was poor in this case? Do you think it was the right decision to release them after 4 hours?
jakelazaroff 3y ago
That anecdote is a non sequitur, but nonetheless: I assume you didn't see the full video, where it turned out that the police assaulted the "illegals" unprovoked? https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/02/08/times-square-migrants-arrests-body-camera-footage-contradicts-nypd-account/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/02/08/times-square-migrants-arr... That Fox News article is mostly information-free, but my takeaway is that it's blaming "bail reform" for the release of the people the police assaulted, which is abjectly false: they were charged with a violent felony, which means the judge — a prosecutor for almost two decades! — could have set bail.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  I mean - an arrest, even if wrongful, is not the same as an assault. I don’t think I have the ability to judge what is a wrongful arrest simply from the video. This video does not really vindicate the people attacking the cops imo.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    I'm going to stop responding because this thread is off topic, but this is exactly what a culture of lawlessness looks like. The police very clearly assaulted someone on camera, and you're bending over backwards to find a way to exculpate them. There's a reason the judge declined to set bail.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      > I'm going to stop responding because this thread is off topic We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. > There's a reason the judge declined to set bail. And the reason is there isn't the willpower to hold criminals accountable.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > I assume you didn't see the full video, where it turned out that the police assaulted the "illegals" unprovoked? I did see the full video and that's not assault. The police are well within their right to break up a congregation of disorderly juveniles outside homeless shelters. When they resisted that they arrested them. Good. Why are you bending over backwards to protect people with this sort of history? > At the time of his arrest, he was already walking free despite more than a dozen pending larceny charges, including six felonies related to credit card theft. > Some, but not all, of the suspects and their associates are part of an "Oliver Twist"-style group of Venezuelan pickpockets who operate a ring around Times Square and other tourist attractions, law enforcement sources told Fox News Digital Friday. https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegals-who-caught-bus-out-nyc-after-attack-police-may-have-gotten-free-ride-us-taxpayers-sources https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegals-who-caught-bus-out-nyc-a...

bdw5204 3y ago

According to the US Supreme Court, the police have no duty to protect citizens[0], even if they obtain a court-issued protective order. Cars are insecure on purpose because people accidentally lock their keys inside all the time so locksmiths need to be able to get into them. Likewise, locks on homes are insecure on purpose because people lock themselves out. The entire system of locks is based on the assumption that crime is rare and criminals will pick the easiest targets. If crime ceases to be rare, it falls apart very quickly. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...

whimsicalism 3y ago
There is no developed country in the world that does not have legal and LE discretion. It’s only the fact that the US has a common law system that this case even got far at all. Go find me somewhere where you can successfully sue the government for not arresting someone. And again: this is a case about Canada - so this has literally 0 relevance to the topic at hand.
- eli 3y ago
  Discretion about whether or not to protect a citizen?
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Are there any examples where that is the case?
    - eli 3y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
      - HPsquared 3y ago

notatoad 3y ago

>This article is about Canada but really it applies to the US as well, since the US has a similar rate of car theft (~280 thefts per 100k people, vs ~220 in canada, if you trust statista) and is also working to ban the flipper zero.

whimsicalism 3y ago
Canada has much more non-recovered car theft where (especially luxury) cars are stolen and shipped off.