7 ms·

Yes. Conversely if programmers had to work like Architects they'd be paid a fraction, not get promoted to run serious projects until they are 50+, work copious

Yes. Conversely if programmers had to work like Architects they'd be paid a fraction, not get promoted to run serious projects until they are 50+, work copious unpaid overtime, not be allowed to work from home, be held legally liable for their work, spend most of their days focussing on compliance rather than outcomes, be more client focussed than they have ever considered regardless of above, etc.

oivey 3y ago
Yes, and, if they wanted to just build to a spec like a construction worker, they’d get to look forward to getting paid even worse still, physically demanding labor, working in the hot, working in the cold, shitting in boiling portapotties, and shitting in frozen portapotties.
throwitaway222 3y ago
Some architects get hired to do a 50 unit apartment complex for 200k that only takes them a few months. The owners of those businesses farm it out to a junior to do the entire thing, then look over it quickly. Said junior usually only does this for a maximum of 10 years and graduates to owning their own business. However 85% of them graduate to running a drafter business which just draws plans.
- freddie_mercury 3y ago
  There is not enough industry growth for every junior to own their own business in 10 years.
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    There is if the average size of said business is between 2 and 1.
- darkwater 3y ago
  BUT if there is a serious issue in the houses built by following the project you had signed, well, you will go to jail (or pay the fine). I still have to see a software engineer held PERSONALLY accountable, in front of the law, for a PII leak, for example.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    Try working in safety critical software. There liability is the norm.
    - darkwater 3y ago
      Yes, but basically every architect work is safety critical. If a construction collapses on itself, it will kill you.
      - sojournerc 3y ago
        Architects design, a structural engineer makes sure it stands up
        darkwater 3y ago
        I think it depends on the type of work (and also legislation). For example I had architects calculating which kind/size of iron girder/joist (IDK the exact English word for it) put to replace a supporting wall. If they calculate that badly, the roof comes down at some point, and I die.
  - whiterknight 3y ago
    I am ignorant about this industry. But is it really the architect who is held liable? Not the civil engineer who signs off on the analysis?
watwut 3y ago
Programmers are rarely promoted to run serious projects. Many work a lot of unpaid overtime. Many of use spend our days focusing on compliance rather then outcomes.
wwilim 3y ago
And be used as factotums if the investors ever notice they're good at getting things done. The amount of times my dad was asked to drive 5 hours somewhere to deliver a giant stack of paperwork to a local administration office to secure a building permit...
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
> not get promoted to run serious projects until they are 50+ Uh, based?
seemaze 3y ago
> be held legally liable for their work I've always been amazed that in software, you can call yourself an 'architect', 'engineer', or 'contractor' without any legal accountability. But I'm from the brick-and-mortar side of the fence.

oivey 3y ago

Yes, and, if they wanted to just build to a spec like a construction worker, they’d get to look forward to getting paid even worse still, physically demanding labor, working in the hot, working in the cold, shitting in boiling portapotties, and shitting in frozen portapotties.

throwitaway222 3y ago

Some architects get hired to do a 50 unit apartment complex for 200k that only takes them a few months. The owners of those businesses farm it out to a junior to do the entire thing, then look over it quickly. Said junior usually only does this for a maximum of 10 years and graduates to owning their own business. However 85% of them graduate to running a drafter business which just draws plans.

freddie_mercury 3y ago
There is not enough industry growth for every junior to own their own business in 10 years.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  There is if the average size of said business is between 2 and 1.
darkwater 3y ago
BUT if there is a serious issue in the houses built by following the project you had signed, well, you will go to jail (or pay the fine). I still have to see a software engineer held PERSONALLY accountable, in front of the law, for a PII leak, for example.
- adrianN 3y ago
  Try working in safety critical software. There liability is the norm.
  - darkwater 3y ago
    Yes, but basically every architect work is safety critical. If a construction collapses on itself, it will kill you.
    - sojournerc 3y ago
      Architects design, a structural engineer makes sure it stands up
      - darkwater 3y ago
        I think it depends on the type of work (and also legislation). For example I had architects calculating which kind/size of iron girder/joist (IDK the exact English word for it) put to replace a supporting wall. If they calculate that badly, the roof comes down at some point, and I die.
- whiterknight 3y ago
  I am ignorant about this industry. But is it really the architect who is held liable? Not the civil engineer who signs off on the analysis?

watwut 3y ago

Programmers are rarely promoted to run serious projects. Many work a lot of unpaid overtime. Many of use spend our days focusing on compliance rather then outcomes.

wwilim 3y ago

And be used as factotums if the investors ever notice they're good at getting things done. The amount of times my dad was asked to drive 5 hours somewhere to deliver a giant stack of paperwork to a local administration office to secure a building permit...

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

> not get promoted to run serious projects until they are 50+ Uh, based?

seemaze 3y ago

> be held legally liable for their work I've always been amazed that in software, you can call yourself an 'architect', 'engineer', or 'contractor' without any legal accountability. But I'm from the brick-and-mortar side of the fence.