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This is a very American and by extension Western civilization point of view. One not shared in other societies. One survey that I found really interesting (ca

by refurb 3y ago

This is a very American and by extension Western civilization point of view. One not shared in other societies. One survey that I found really interesting (can’t find it now) was one done in Singapore. A vast majority 70%+ agreed with the statement “a stable society is more important than adhering to democratic principles”. So all this commentary in the West about Singapore being a flawed democracy doesn’t register with Singaporeans. They are more than happy to give up democratic rights as long as the government delivers as promised. It’s a view that is quite prevalent across Asia (including Vietnam).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I would say it’s a western point of view, and by extension, an American one. Not the other way around, America isn’t the prospector or even a very good exemplar of democratic ideals. On the other hand, much of Asia, especially east Asia’s focus on stability over democratic principles is very much a product of China’s dominate role in that region.
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  > much of Asia, especially east Asia’s focus on stability over democratic principles is very much a product of China’s dominate role in that region Not really. Giving up democracy for stability is increasingly a theme in South Asia, too. The West had their turn at it, too, in the 1940s; Asians don't have a monopoly over less-democratic governments. In fact I daresay the stereotypical nondemocratic example that comes to mind is Nazi Germany, which is distinctly Western. People have a tendency to give up democracy for stability and improved quality of life when they've been trampled over, told they are inferior to other people with reduced melanin production, and generally not given opportunities to thrive. Both China and India have massive inferiority complexes, and not without reason—they want a say in the world stage, and they'll get it by hook or crook. Together they have nearly two-fifths of the world population.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Democracy is a long developed ideal in the west, from when the Greeks invented it. Yes, Europe goes through spates of authoritarianism and was under autocratic rule for much of its history, but the direction is clear, Germany and Italy had no cultural problem in snapping back to democracy after WW2, and Portugal and Spain saw little value in continuing dictatorships after Franco and Salazar either. I find skin tone to be a much bigger deal among the elites of India and China than in the west. It’s clear that classism plays a huge role in those countries, where the elites rule with little regard for the common people.
ametrau 3y ago
Human rights (like privacy) are fundamental and not cultural, racial etc. Obviously.

by refurb 3y ago

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

I would say it’s a western point of view, and by extension, an American one. Not the other way around, America isn’t the prospector or even a very good exemplar of democratic ideals. On the other hand, much of Asia, especially east Asia’s focus on stability over democratic principles is very much a product of China’s dominate role in that region.

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> much of Asia, especially east Asia’s focus on stability over democratic principles is very much a product of China’s dominate role in that region Not really. Giving up democracy for stability is increasingly a theme in South Asia, too. The West had their turn at it, too, in the 1940s; Asians don't have a monopoly over less-democratic governments. In fact I daresay the stereotypical nondemocratic example that comes to mind is Nazi Germany, which is distinctly Western. People have a tendency to give up democracy for stability and improved quality of life when they've been trampled over, told they are inferior to other people with reduced melanin production, and generally not given opportunities to thrive. Both China and India have massive inferiority complexes, and not without reason—they want a say in the world stage, and they'll get it by hook or crook. Together they have nearly two-fifths of the world population.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Democracy is a long developed ideal in the west, from when the Greeks invented it. Yes, Europe goes through spates of authoritarianism and was under autocratic rule for much of its history, but the direction is clear, Germany and Italy had no cultural problem in snapping back to democracy after WW2, and Portugal and Spain saw little value in continuing dictatorships after Franco and Salazar either. I find skin tone to be a much bigger deal among the elites of India and China than in the west. It’s clear that classism plays a huge role in those countries, where the elites rule with little regard for the common people.

ametrau 3y ago

Human rights (like privacy) are fundamental and not cultural, racial etc. Obviously.