5 ms·

Elon Musk nominated for Nobel Peace Prize for defending free speech

15 points by cbeach 3y ago

cbeach 3y ago
People will inevitably comment regarding the X.com suspension of Yulia Navalnaya (Alexei Navalny's wife): “X does not have a choice but to obey local governments. If we don't obey local government laws, we will get shut down. We do our best to provide free speech that is possible under the law.” --Elon Musk If x.com was shut down in Russia, another channel of citizen organisation and dissent would be removed. Musk is in an near-impossible position when it comes to free speech in totalitarian regimes. --- Update: it looks like this argument is somewhat moot as Yulia's account has been restored: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/x-suspends-account-of-navalnys-widow-yulia-navalnaya.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/x-suspends-account-of-navaln...
- dbbk 3y ago
  They perfectly well have the functionality to make certain tweets and accounts inaccessible in certain regions. There's no reason to shut the account down globally.
  - cbeach 3y ago
    The problem is that if Putin demands Yulia's account is shut down globally then Musk has to comply, or Putin will pull the plug on x.com for all Russians (including Yulia). Whether or not Putin /should/ have global jurisdiction is irrelevant. He has the power to cut off x.com in Russia if x.com does something he really doesn't like. Rock and hard place.
    - dbbk 3y ago
      The Russian legal system only has jurisdiction in Russia.
      - ksherlock 3y ago
        Maksim Kuzminov would disagree with you.
      - cbeach 3y ago
        Alexander Litvinenko would disagree with you. https://news.sky.com/story/the-polonium-trail-how-did-the-poison-used-to-kill-alexander-litvinenko-get-to-the-uk-12027427 https://news.sky.com/story/the-polonium-trail-how-did-the-po...
      - cbeach 3y ago
        Sergei and Yulia Skripal would disagree with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...
    - r721 3y ago
      Twitter is blocked in Russia since Mar 2022.
  - mamonster 3y ago
    Do they actually have that capability(genuinely asking, wouldn't know how it would work)? You know these tweets that get reported and investigated because they "don't comply with local German laws" or whatever? I would've thought if region locks were possible then this would've stopped happening a long time ago.
    - dbbk 3y ago
      Yes: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/post-withheld-by-country https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/post-withheld...
- timeon 3y ago
  > in an near-impossible position when it comes to free speech Also not free speech absolutists.
  - cbeach 3y ago
    Hypothetically speaking, would you choose to allow Musk to be above the law in order to allow him to defend freedom of speech? I would. But I don't think it would be a universally popular idea.
    - timeon 3y ago
      I think that 'free speech absolutism' is empty vessel. Virtue signaling.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      No one in their right mind would. One of the first things Musk did after buying Twitter was to ban the guy who published his plane movements. Apparently acceptable free speech doesn't entail republishing already public information in a slightly more convenient format, if it annoys Musk. Entrusting anything, especially without the protection of the law, to the apparently emotionally frail Musk would seem to be unadvisable.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  Maybe if he'd treated the prior Twitter ownership's difficult decisions with that kind of magnanimity instead of demagoguery he wouldn't have played himself into wasting his money on it.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  > If x.com was shut down in Russia What the hell are you on about? Twitter has been 'restricted' in Russia since March 2022.
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
They gave a Peace Prize to Kissinger so I don't think the prize holds that much weight really.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  Adding to this the origin was likely and unofficially attributed to a virtue signalling of the name-sake due to an accident of mistaken identity. [1] Allegedly when Alfred Nobel's brother died a reporter had mistaken Alfred's brother for Alfred and referred to him as the merchant of death in the obituary who had grown rich by developing new ways to “mutilate and kill”. Alfred responded by contributing some of his fortune to developing the peace prize. [1] - https://www.history.com/news/did-a-premature-obituary-inspire-the-nobel-prize https://www.history.com/news/did-a-premature-obituary-inspir...
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Note that this is just a _nomination_; previous nominees have included Vladimir Putin and Adolf Hitler (though Hitler was a joke). Quite a lot of people can nominate; there are typically a few hundred. Kissinger actually _won_ it.
- Zigurd 3y ago
  Kissinger is (still) dead. Who has the stature to replace him?
eesmith 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize > Over time, many individuals have become known as "Nobel Peace Prize Nominees", but this designation has no official standing, and means only that one of the thousands of eligible nominators suggested the person's name for consideration.[22] Indeed, in 1939, Adolf Hitler received a satirical nomination from a member of the Swedish parliament, mocking the (serious but unsuccessful) nomination of Neville Chamberlain. https://www.nobelpeaceprize.org/nobel-peace-prize/nomination/ https://www.nobelpeaceprize.org/nobel-peace-prize/nomination... > There are 351 candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2023 out of which 259 are individuals and 92 are organizations. > 351 candidates are the second highest number of candidates ever. For eight years in a row the number of candidates has been exceeding 300. The current record of 376 candidates was reached in 2016.
cbeach 3y ago
Interesting that this submission acheived a HN rank of #75 within minutes, but then suddenly vanished from the Hacker News list altogether. This submission is 26 mins old, and has 10 points. A submission that's 42 mins old, with 6 points is currently ranked #15 in HN. Something amiss?
- cinntaile 3y ago
  Seems fair to deprioritize Elon news. It rarely leads to interesting conversation. On a more general note, this happens all the time. It's how HN works. It doesn't have much to do with Elon.
  - cbeach 3y ago
    [flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Users flagged it. That's usually the reason. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.

15 points by cbeach 3y ago

People will inevitably comment regarding the X.com suspension of Yulia Navalnaya (Alexei Navalny's wife): “X does not have a choice but to obey local governments. If we don't obey local government laws, we will get shut down. We do our best to provide free speech that is possible under the law.” --Elon Musk If x.com was shut down in Russia, another channel of citizen organisation and dissent would be removed. Musk is in an near-impossible position when it comes to free speech in totalitarian regimes. --- Update: it looks like this argument is somewhat moot as Yulia's account has been restored: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/x-suspends-account-of-navalnys-widow-yulia-navalnaya.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/x-suspends-account-of-navaln...

dbbk 3y ago
They perfectly well have the functionality to make certain tweets and accounts inaccessible in certain regions. There's no reason to shut the account down globally.
- cbeach 3y ago
  The problem is that if Putin demands Yulia's account is shut down globally then Musk has to comply, or Putin will pull the plug on x.com for all Russians (including Yulia). Whether or not Putin /should/ have global jurisdiction is irrelevant. He has the power to cut off x.com in Russia if x.com does something he really doesn't like. Rock and hard place.
  - dbbk 3y ago
    The Russian legal system only has jurisdiction in Russia.
    - ksherlock 3y ago
      Maksim Kuzminov would disagree with you.
    - cbeach 3y ago
      Alexander Litvinenko would disagree with you. https://news.sky.com/story/the-polonium-trail-how-did-the-poison-used-to-kill-alexander-litvinenko-get-to-the-uk-12027427 https://news.sky.com/story/the-polonium-trail-how-did-the-po...
    - cbeach 3y ago
      Sergei and Yulia Skripal would disagree with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...
  - r721 3y ago
    Twitter is blocked in Russia since Mar 2022.
- mamonster 3y ago
  Do they actually have that capability(genuinely asking, wouldn't know how it would work)? You know these tweets that get reported and investigated because they "don't comply with local German laws" or whatever? I would've thought if region locks were possible then this would've stopped happening a long time ago.
  - dbbk 3y ago
    Yes: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/post-withheld-by-country https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/post-withheld...
timeon 3y ago
> in an near-impossible position when it comes to free speech Also not free speech absolutists.
- cbeach 3y ago
  Hypothetically speaking, would you choose to allow Musk to be above the law in order to allow him to defend freedom of speech? I would. But I don't think it would be a universally popular idea.
  - timeon 3y ago
    I think that 'free speech absolutism' is empty vessel. Virtue signaling.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    No one in their right mind would. One of the first things Musk did after buying Twitter was to ban the guy who published his plane movements. Apparently acceptable free speech doesn't entail republishing already public information in a slightly more convenient format, if it annoys Musk. Entrusting anything, especially without the protection of the law, to the apparently emotionally frail Musk would seem to be unadvisable.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Maybe if he'd treated the prior Twitter ownership's difficult decisions with that kind of magnanimity instead of demagoguery he wouldn't have played himself into wasting his money on it.
maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> If x.com was shut down in Russia What the hell are you on about? Twitter has been 'restricted' in Russia since March 2022.

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

They gave a Peace Prize to Kissinger so I don't think the prize holds that much weight really.

LinuxBender 3y ago
Adding to this the origin was likely and unofficially attributed to a virtue signalling of the name-sake due to an accident of mistaken identity. [1] Allegedly when Alfred Nobel's brother died a reporter had mistaken Alfred's brother for Alfred and referred to him as the merchant of death in the obituary who had grown rich by developing new ways to “mutilate and kill”. Alfred responded by contributing some of his fortune to developing the peace prize. [1] - https://www.history.com/news/did-a-premature-obituary-inspire-the-nobel-prize https://www.history.com/news/did-a-premature-obituary-inspir...
rsynnott 3y ago
Note that this is just a _nomination_; previous nominees have included Vladimir Putin and Adolf Hitler (though Hitler was a joke). Quite a lot of people can nominate; there are typically a few hundred. Kissinger actually _won_ it.
Zigurd 3y ago
Kissinger is (still) dead. Who has the stature to replace him?

eesmith 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize > Over time, many individuals have become known as "Nobel Peace Prize Nominees", but this designation has no official standing, and means only that one of the thousands of eligible nominators suggested the person's name for consideration.[22] Indeed, in 1939, Adolf Hitler received a satirical nomination from a member of the Swedish parliament, mocking the (serious but unsuccessful) nomination of Neville Chamberlain. https://www.nobelpeaceprize.org/nobel-peace-prize/nomination/ https://www.nobelpeaceprize.org/nobel-peace-prize/nomination... > There are 351 candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2023 out of which 259 are individuals and 92 are organizations. > 351 candidates are the second highest number of candidates ever. For eight years in a row the number of candidates has been exceeding 300. The current record of 376 candidates was reached in 2016.

cbeach 3y ago

Interesting that this submission acheived a HN rank of #75 within minutes, but then suddenly vanished from the Hacker News list altogether. This submission is 26 mins old, and has 10 points. A submission that's 42 mins old, with 6 points is currently ranked #15 in HN. Something amiss?

cinntaile 3y ago
Seems fair to deprioritize Elon news. It rarely leads to interesting conversation. On a more general note, this happens all the time. It's how HN works. It doesn't have much to do with Elon.
- cbeach 3y ago
  [flagged]
dang 3y ago
Users flagged it. That's usually the reason. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.