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> But you better have the intellectual goods, and not just win arguments by default by suppressing dissent. / The latter is activism. Isn't that what conservat

> But you better have the intellectual goods, and not just win arguments by default by suppressing dissent. / The latter is activism. Isn't that what conservatives are actively, openly doing everywhere - suppressing dissent in libraries, universities, business (ESG, DEI, etc.), society, courts, political protest, media - suppressing liberal dissent?

throwawa14223 3y ago
I'm having a hard time parsing this. Is your claim that ESG, DEI, etc are part of conservatives suppressing liberal dissent?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  I mean that the suppression of those things is part of conservatives suppressing liberal dissent. I see the problem; I'll fix it. Thanks!
jimbokun 3y ago
Conservatives have very little control or influence over libraries, universities, business HR programs, or the broad media (excluding some notable explicitly conservative outlets). But yes, the ham fisted attempts by conservative politicians to combat purported progressive censorship...with conservative censorship...is equally bad.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  Republican legislatures have been banning books from libraries. Libraries are government institutions. State universities are also government institutions. Florida has been forcing state schools, stifling the speech of the faculty on exactly what this article is about.
  - EEMac 3y ago
    Has Florida been banning books from universities?! "Schools" usually means K-12 schools.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > Conservatives have very little control or influence over libraries Conservatives have banned books from libraries across Florida and Texas (and other states) > universities Conservatives have compelled universities to reverse hiring decisions (at U. NC and one of the TX schools at least), end programs (e.g., Harvard's disinformation program), driven out university presidents (Harvard, Penn), and much, much more. In Florida they've banned certain ideas, they've undermined entire schools where they didn't like the politics. > business HR programs Conservatives have caused a huge pullback in DEI programs in the corporate world. > broad media (excluding some notable explicitly conservative outlets). That's a major exception: Fox News is by far the most popular news channel in the US; the Wall Street Journal is by far the dominant US publication for business. > the ham fisted attempts by conservative politicians to combat purported progressive censorship What does banning books and ideas from education have to do with combating censorship?
EEMac 3y ago
It's tough to call DEI "dissent" when it is broadly mandated by HR departments, university administrations, and in many cases state law.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  It's an interesting question (and I upvoted you, though I'm the GP): First, dissent is mostly about speech, IMHO, and DEI is only incidentally about speech. But let's look at it as an act that contests the status quo. The point of DEI is to change the status quo, in which power, status, wealth, and freedom are distributed disproportionately to white males. A widespread belief (that I share, but I'm trying to examine this neutrally) is that it's largely due to racism and sexism that are historic, current, and systemic [0]. The whole point of DEI is to change that. DEI has been embraced by many in power, making it an odd 'dissent', though maybe that's just a successful dissent - it's an generations-old dissent that people finally came around to. At the same time, it's still a dissent against the many status quo powers that are fighting against DEI. [0] By 'systemic', I mean it's a product of a system that nobody quite chooses, but as long as everyone keeps operating it, it produces these results. For example, disproportionate hiring of white males could be because hiring is based on your personal network, which is based on who you work with, etc., and it becomes circular. People don't have to be seeking racist outcomes to produce them.

throwawa14223 3y ago

I'm having a hard time parsing this. Is your claim that ESG, DEI, etc are part of conservatives suppressing liberal dissent?

wolverine876 3y ago
I mean that the suppression of those things is part of conservatives suppressing liberal dissent. I see the problem; I'll fix it. Thanks!

jimbokun 3y ago

Conservatives have very little control or influence over libraries, universities, business HR programs, or the broad media (excluding some notable explicitly conservative outlets). But yes, the ham fisted attempts by conservative politicians to combat purported progressive censorship...with conservative censorship...is equally bad.

ianburrell 3y ago
Republican legislatures have been banning books from libraries. Libraries are government institutions. State universities are also government institutions. Florida has been forcing state schools, stifling the speech of the faculty on exactly what this article is about.
- EEMac 3y ago
  Has Florida been banning books from universities?! "Schools" usually means K-12 schools.
wolverine876 3y ago
> Conservatives have very little control or influence over libraries Conservatives have banned books from libraries across Florida and Texas (and other states) > universities Conservatives have compelled universities to reverse hiring decisions (at U. NC and one of the TX schools at least), end programs (e.g., Harvard's disinformation program), driven out university presidents (Harvard, Penn), and much, much more. In Florida they've banned certain ideas, they've undermined entire schools where they didn't like the politics. > business HR programs Conservatives have caused a huge pullback in DEI programs in the corporate world. > broad media (excluding some notable explicitly conservative outlets). That's a major exception: Fox News is by far the most popular news channel in the US; the Wall Street Journal is by far the dominant US publication for business. > the ham fisted attempts by conservative politicians to combat purported progressive censorship What does banning books and ideas from education have to do with combating censorship?

EEMac 3y ago

It's tough to call DEI "dissent" when it is broadly mandated by HR departments, university administrations, and in many cases state law.

wolverine876 3y ago
It's an interesting question (and I upvoted you, though I'm the GP): First, dissent is mostly about speech, IMHO, and DEI is only incidentally about speech. But let's look at it as an act that contests the status quo. The point of DEI is to change the status quo, in which power, status, wealth, and freedom are distributed disproportionately to white males. A widespread belief (that I share, but I'm trying to examine this neutrally) is that it's largely due to racism and sexism that are historic, current, and systemic [0]. The whole point of DEI is to change that. DEI has been embraced by many in power, making it an odd 'dissent', though maybe that's just a successful dissent - it's an generations-old dissent that people finally came around to. At the same time, it's still a dissent against the many status quo powers that are fighting against DEI. [0] By 'systemic', I mean it's a product of a system that nobody quite chooses, but as long as everyone keeps operating it, it produces these results. For example, disproportionate hiring of white males could be because hiring is based on your personal network, which is based on who you work with, etc., and it becomes circular. People don't have to be seeking racist outcomes to produce them.