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Updating Gov.uk’s crown
- milliams 3y agoIt looks like Firefox caches the favicon more aggressively that I thought. Even a shift-refresh or explicitly clearing `blog.gov.uk` in the settings doesn't update it.
- dmarto 3y agoGot curious, turns out their WordPress theme adds a wild <link rel="shortcut icon" href="https://insidegovuk.blog.gov.uk/wp-content/themes/gds-blogs/favicon.ico"> at (or near) the bottom, and that is the old favicon.
- milliams 3y agoInteresting, good spot. I might try to find a way to notify them, lest someone gets hanged for treason.
- gchq-7703 3y agoI'll pop them a message, assuming you haven't found their contact details already. :)
- milliams 3y agoNope, go for it.
- perihelions 3y agoFor cached majesté
- sib 3y agoYou laugh, but then I found this when following a link on the page to learn more about Royal Cyphers... There are simply thousands of Pillar Boxes across the United Kingdom and the best way to date them is to look at their cypher. This will identify the Monarch that was on the throne during their creation. When the monarch changes, new pillar boxes do not replace old but are added to those in use, and this is why Britain has such an array of boxes. You will find, however, that in Scotland pillar boxes do not have ‘EIIR’ on them. This is because some Scottish people did not accept Queen Elizabeth as the second monarch of her name, since Queen Elizabeth I was never ruler of Scotland. Earlier pillar boxes with the cypher were vandalised and even blown up, and because of this they instead depict the Scottish Crown.
- soneil 3y agoRelated trivia there is that you'll still find some postboxes with royal cypher - usually GR, ER, or VR (George, Edward & Victoria) across Ireland. But painted green.
- walthamstow 3y agoAre they in use by An Post or just disused relics?
- soneil 3y agoThere's apparently some still in use - the oldest still in use is in Kent train station in Cork, which has a 160yo postbox. They're increasingly rare - which makes sense, given they have to be 100+ years old by definition. But they're out there.
- blibble 3y agoI thought the choice of the Tudor Crown was an odd choice for him as the last Charles to wear it met an unpleasant end (St Edward's Crown just looks better too!)
- croisillon 3y ago[flagged]
- psunavy03 3y agoMost people don't get deposed from their throne and then have their head chopped off by Parliament.
- kitd 3y agoCharles I was a Stuart. Tudors are off the hook for that one at least.
- quietbritishjim 3y agoI suppose it's just what I grew up with, but the old crown seems really iconic to me, while the new one seems really dull and non descript. (I know they're both old but you know what I mean.) It's a pity the king didn't stick with the old one.
- irrational 3y agoIn the side by side view, I think the old crown is more easily recognizable. Maybe because it is wider while the newer one is more of a round shape and, at a glance, looks more like a ball.
- perihelions 3y agoIt'd be quite ironic if they A/B tested this.
- dang 3y ago[stub for offtopicness]
- Digory 3y agoA ridiculous transaction cost by modern standards, especially when multiplied by all HM's various enterprises. Except this kind of work spawned a nation of clerks and it has lasted a thousand years. Everybody has to think about the King's values, and implement them in their own little corner of the kingdom. If Joe Biden changes his heraldry, it doesn't change my post office experience one whit.
- bb123 3y agoWell while we’re discussing needless costs associated with changes in leadership shall we talk about those hilariously over the top inaugurations you have every four years?
- rpmisms 3y agoThose are less expensive and less dramatic than a typical NFL game. Rather understated, given our national culture.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoThe real issue is how much of the cost is unwritten by private entities and what they might expect in return.
- rpmisms 3y agoThat's really unconcerning compared to the bulk of political spending. Also, the money spent on inaugurations is easily trackable; it comes out of a general fund. Absolutely pales in comparison to Congressional insider trading and stuff like Hunter Biden and Eric Trump do: making money off of implied considerations.
- 3y ago
- greatgib 3y agoCrazy when you think about the time and money wasted stupidly because of this, that could have been used to improve public services instead...
- frereubu 3y agoI'm a republican, but this is an infinitesimally small drop in the ocean of public finances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_Uni...
- chris_wot 3y agoIt's only stupid if you don't like the monarchy.
- ews 3y agoI think the vast majority of people in any country would prefer a Head of State that is chosen by popular vote rather than by Royal Sperm. Changing an icon may cost a bucket, next to nothing, although monarchies are usually very opaque (regardless of what they pretend, we still don't have an account of all European monarchies properties and investments). However, the entire coronation pantomime is bizarre in a country still suffering from the Brexit fiasco.
- chris_wot 3y agoThat does not seem to be the case in the UK. Nor does it seem to be the case (yet) in Australia, which has rejected the move to become a Republic. Everywhere else, I'm sure that may be the case. Except Norway. And Thailand. Maybe Bhutan. etc.
- ews 3y agoI did not know Bhutan, or Thailand had referenda on the composition of their government and decided to stay monarchic. Last time they asked in Norway it was roughly 120 years ago, around the time the Model T was all the rage. Things have change a tiny bit since then. Most countries where a referendum has been held (particularly in the last 100 years) have decided to go with an elected head of stated, not a monarch. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchy_referendums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchy_referendums)
- TRiG_Ireland 3y agoEach monarch has their own personal cyper (and this is not just a UK tradition: it's common across Europe and perhaps elsewhere). Linus Boman dives into the history and critiques some of the designs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ZL7H7WCzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ZL7H7WCzM. (He's a graphic designer, and makes excellent videos.) Using the crown from the monarch's cypher in the government logo is an interesting choice, but I suppose it does make sense. It is, after all, known as His Majesty's Government. But in many other ways, Parliament asserts its independence from the monarchy. Maybe using the mace instead of the crown would have been a good idea?
- martinflack 3y agoOn parliament.uk they use a logo of a crowned portcullis, which apparently is a style that dates back centuries.
- rmccue 3y ago> But in many other ways, Parliament asserts its independence from the monarchy The implication here is that The Government and The Parliament are the same, which isn’t true. While it’s not quite so delineated as in countries with formally separate executive and legislative, the two are separate entities. The executive is also commonly called “The Crown”, so it’s an appropriate logo. (Albeit, that’s also a nebulous term.)
- blibble 3y agothe mace is exactly the same as a crown: it represents the monarch's power they're also literally Crown Jewels, the same as the Imperial State Crown and St. Edmunds Crown
- M2Ys4U 3y ago>Parliament asserts its independence from the monarchy. Maybe using the mace instead of the crown would have been a good idea? It does... to an extent. Its official acts, though, are done as King-in-Parliament, and the mace is a symbol of that royal authority under which it meets.
- heads 3y ago
- ahmedfromtunis 3y agoI find the idea that (at least part of) the government identity is tied the "personal authority" of the ruler a bit bizarre ― even though I grew up under an absolute dictatorial regime. Even during said dictatorship, the absolute ruler avoided to tie anything to his personal identity, or even that of the ruling party; even though the lines between party and state were blurred elsewhere. So to see that this is happening in one of the world oldest democracies never ceased to astonish me.
- whatshisface 3y agoI think there's a bit in Yes, Minister about how the more you're doing something in government the less you say about it, and the less you're doing the more you say.
- adamwintle 3y agoWhat does that mean? Are you suggesting that active government work is often done quietly, while inactivity can lead to more public discussion to give the appearance of action?
- whatshisface 3y agoIf you eat when you're hungry, eating and being hungry aren't the opposite of each other.
- TaylorAlexander 3y agoMy dream is that this century we will see the end to the British monarchy. These old symbols of rule must see an end if we hope to continue humanity’s rule towards more democratic rule. (I say this knowing full well that “democracy” is hardly what we make of it even in the most famous democracies like the USA, and we still have so much work to do.)
- Dalewyn 3y agoI hope the British monarchy (and others like the Japanese monarchy) continue for time immemorial. Monarchs these days are (fortunately) more benevolent than ye olde days, and are looking to become bastions of calm and sanity in an era when democracy (FSVO democracy) keeps roiling shit up. I say that as an American too, long live the King.
- robertlagrant 3y ago> With huge thanks to teams across government The power of just getting money from people. Why not involve teams across government in one of the most minor changes imaginable?
- stuaxo 3y agoAll those teams have applications that will need an update somehow. Here is a list of organisations, each will have 1 or many websites - https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations
- petepete 3y agoThere's an [incomplete] services list here along with the version of the Design System they're using. Those on 5.1, 4.8 or 3.15 are capable of showing the new crown. https://github.com/x-govuk/govuk-services-frontend-stats https://github.com/x-govuk/govuk-services-frontend-stats
- yreg 3y agoOn the off chance you haven't seen it, GOV.UK design system is pretty good and accessible. Some institutions in my country (not UK) adopted it as well and I think it was absolutely the right move. Although we don't need the Crown component.
- andrei_says_ 3y agoI'd say it's one of the best I've seen in the wild. The way it combines regality, clarity, the right tone (friendly but clear) and visual hierarchy is brilliant and masterful. Everything is well-thought out, accessible, clear, and communicating the right hierarchy, voice and tone.
- Nursie 3y agoTheir design is great. Ethics a little less so. They still make extensive use of google-analytics. I don't care how obfuscated google claim to make the data they receive, routinely leaking all online interactions between UK citizens and UK government to a private overseas company is just wrong.
- eru 3y agoGoogle is a public company, isn't it? Though I assume they are probably dealing with a subsidiary of Google that's officially headquartered in the UK. So it's not an overseas company.
- Nursie 3y agoPrivate sector, rather than public/state sector. I guess there's ambiguity in the terms here - It's publicly traded, sure, but it's not a government or state-owned entity. I'm not sure that assumption is particularly valid. The only response I've ever had from them on the issue was "our contract with google says it gets anonymised". This puts a lot of trust in Google not to use all the tasty data that is being sent, and they made no claims that the data remains in-country or under their control.
- 3y ago
- aledalgrande 3y agoGov.uk is probably one of the smoothest government websites I've ever seen, even when I used it a decade ago (they had just rebuilt it in Rails and I talked to the team behind it). Very thoughtful people behind it.
- xeckr 3y agoblog.gov.uk just said LMGTFY in a hyperlink that appears to be pointing at the Royal Cypher of King George VI.
- iamnotsure 3y agoGo vuk?
- littlestymaar 3y agoFun fact: the favicon of that particular website hasn't been updated with the new crown logo, which I find ironic.
- schoenobates 3y agolooks like it was updated 2 days ago ... < HTTP/2 200 < content-type: image/x-icon < content-length: 4286 < server: nginx < last-modified: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:37:12 GMT < accept-ranges: bytes < date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 10:42:04 GMT < cache-control: public, max-age=86400 < etag: "65d375a8-10be" < vary: Accept-Encoding < x-cache: Hit from cloudfront < via: 1.1 3e01624605be2cc1fb592922856a08c6.cloudfront.net (CloudFront) < x-amz-cf-pop: LHR61-P1 < alt-svc: h3=":443"; ma=86400 < x-amz-cf-id: gsLjkVjEeAxylgygl4y67TgAfIf0bnZhlzTG5S-P0fXwhXh3LBl4Iw== < age: 31562
- matthewfelgate 3y agoOne day I would like us to remove the crown completely.
- 2mol 3y agoAll of this information and then they missed updating the favicon of the very page the article is published on :)
- mattlondon 3y agoI do wonder, with this and lot of other stuff related to the Royals, if this is all just a colossal waste of everyone's time and energy to update all this crap? Can we not just leave it as is and let people just carry on with stuff that actually - you know - matters? Seriously who cares if the favicon and other trivial little details for the gov.uk website has the wrong diagrammatic interpretation of the currently sitting monarch's crown?! What makes it worse is we will repeat this folly in a couple of years when the current king dies from his illnesses and the new king picks a oh-so-slightly-differntly-shaped-crown. I would strongly prefer that my (really rather high) tax contributions are spent on meaningful things. Or maybe I am wrong - is his royal highness personally paying for all this? (I doubt it!)
- James_K 3y agoBranding changes all the time. This is hardly a phenomenon unique to royalty. As for the cost of this, I don't think you'll save very much from your really rather high tax contributions by asking a few people not to change the logo on a website. I find it odd that you take issue with only this form of cultural spending. Did you know some of your taxes also go towards museums and endowments for the arts? More fundamentally, some of your taxes are always going to go towards things other people want but you don't. For instance roads you won't drive on, or other people's healthcare.
- mattlondon 3y agoI am happy for my tax to be spent on meaningful, useful things even if I don't get direct benefit from it. But not really happy to do so just because the current royal wants a different crown?! It is so far out of touch with what the little people are dealing with - totally tone deaf.
- James_K 3y agoIt's about as tone deaf as spending money preserving a bunch of old stuff that isn't directly useful to anyone nowadays. These critiques apply equally to the monarchy as they do to museums. The fact of the matter remains that changing the logo on a few things has an incalculably small cost and was likely fulfilled by people the government would have on payroll either way. Extrapolating from your argument, do you think all traditions aught to stop when the economy takes a downturn? It's not as if having a monarchy, or maintaining any of the other traditions, comes at the cost of people being driven to poverty. We have the resources as a society to both provide a decent standard of living for people and to maintain our culture and traditions. It's ridiculous to think that cutting costs on the latter will do any good for the former; it will just free up money to be mismanaged elsewhere, or go on tax cuts for the rich. Your argument here isn't based on actually solving any real problem, just that you don't like the vibes of the situation. I'll assume, given your high tax bracket, that you also have a high income. If so, it's pretty presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of poor people, who generally seem to quite like the monarchy in my experience. Being so starkly pro-austerity that you won't let them spend a little money on changing a few logos seems exceedingly out of touch, given the decade+ of austerity and cost-cutting that lead us to the current situation.
- crossroadsguy 3y agoAh, they are trying to hide the Kohinoor. Got you, buggers! ;-)