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I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. They have long departed from quality and functionality; Jobs has a no nonsense approach where form followed function

I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. They have long departed from quality and functionality; Jobs has a no nonsense approach where form followed functionality. If it functioned properly, the form was intuitive. Apple UI interfaces from the Jobs years were incredible. Nowadays, under forced yearly redesign policy, we’re reversed so far things are just hidden and awkward. Kinda funny: you force it and it sucks.

andsoitis 3y ago
> I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. The way I see it is that Apple excels at designing and building UI patterns and systems (I don't think anyone comes close), but they're terrible when it comes to the UI of actual software products.
- velcrovan 3y ago
  For UI patterns and systems, do you have a post-Jobs example? I'm thinking the word in that last sentence should be “excelled” (past tense).
  - agloe_dreams 3y ago
    I have one - The iPhone X's swipe navigation is brilliant. There is a little WebOS in there in multitasking gestures left and right, but it is such a straightforward system that works.
    - velcrovan 3y ago
      When we say “UI patterns or systems” we mean frameworks that provide high-quality defaults for all the software written for that system. Card/swipe navigation is a specific affordance of iOS — like Alt+Tab switching on desktop OSs — not a pattern or system. Further, as you mention, it was invented by Palm and copied by Apple eight years later.
donatj 3y ago
See: System Settings System Preferences I could pretty intuitively find anything I was looking for. The newer System Settings is basically unusable outside of search
- Jgrubb 3y ago
  My work laptop recently started having issues with the keyboard so I got a loaner, an unopened M1 Pro. It was still on an older version of the Mac OS, and I am so bummed that they want it back. The UI that you're referring to is malpractice.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  System preferences was a really poor design tbh. It just felt so easy because it had been there so long and everyone had the muscle memory. The new one is not much better I agree. But the old one was objectively not great in terms of UX Design. The main problem with the new one in my opinion is that they're shoehorning a mobile experience on the Mac. Something Apple does more and more (and not just Apple, gnome does it too)
  - imbnwa 3y ago
    >The main problem with the new one in my opinion is that they're shoehorning a mobile experience on the Mac. Something Apple does more and more (and not just Apple, gnome does it too) A cost effectiveness measure over a well-thought out one, methinks
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    The old System Preferences showed large, easily differentiable icons, front and center in a nice big grid. The new Settings app shows tiny, barely differentiable icons, hugging the left-most edge of the app. With the old System Preferences, I could immediately tell you where the "Display" and "Privacy & Security" icons could be found. In the new Settings app, I challenge you to tell me where they are in the list without looking.
- MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
  Honestly, I'm not even sure that this is a problem that can be solved. There are too many settings you could access, with no obvious single way to categorize them all. Search is probably the best you can do.
agloe_dreams 3y ago
The best example of this is the macOS document proxies. They were a sensical representation of an icon you can drag and drop, now they are hidden under a hover of the title that stupidly animates it out. Anybody would would make a critical productivity feature a hidden hover should be canned from a UX team. This choice was defended by Alan Dye.
- pimlottc 3y ago
  Sorry, what are document proxies? EDIT: Oh, is this it? [0]. I can't say I ever noticed that before (when it still existed) 0: https://osxdaily.com/2014/08/20/open-files-new-app-proxy-icon-mac-os-x/ https://osxdaily.com/2014/08/20/open-files-new-app-proxy-ico...
  - uxamanda 3y ago
    Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I just tried that flow with a Pages document and it still works in Sonoma. Drag the icon from the header, drop into an email. Now I'm curious what the old feature was.
    - tomjakubowski 3y ago
      What's changed is that newer versions of the OS hide the file proxy icon by default. You have to hover the cursor over the title for a second to see it, or to interact with it. Before, it was always visible, and ready to be clicked + dragged.
      - nudgeee 3y ago
        I think there’s an option somewhere to enable it, but yeah annoying it’s not default.
        uxamanda 3y ago
        Ah maybe I changed this setting at some point and don't remember. It is always there for me, not only on hover.
amelius 3y ago
> I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. Heh. There was a time when you had to upgrade your OS by ... first going into iTunes. Maybe this is still the case. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108964 https://support.apple.com/en-us/108964
- tomjakubowski 3y ago
  You're talking about iOS. We can only judge these things in context. What was the first Android version where everyone could receive updates for the OS over-the-air, not going through a computer + USB port? And when did Apple support the same for iOS?

andsoitis 3y ago

> I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. The way I see it is that Apple excels at designing and building UI patterns and systems (I don't think anyone comes close), but they're terrible when it comes to the UI of actual software products.

velcrovan 3y ago
For UI patterns and systems, do you have a post-Jobs example? I'm thinking the word in that last sentence should be “excelled” (past tense).
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  I have one - The iPhone X's swipe navigation is brilliant. There is a little WebOS in there in multitasking gestures left and right, but it is such a straightforward system that works.
  - velcrovan 3y ago
    When we say “UI patterns or systems” we mean frameworks that provide high-quality defaults for all the software written for that system. Card/swipe navigation is a specific affordance of iOS — like Alt+Tab switching on desktop OSs — not a pattern or system. Further, as you mention, it was invented by Palm and copied by Apple eight years later.

donatj 3y ago

See: System Settings System Preferences I could pretty intuitively find anything I was looking for. The newer System Settings is basically unusable outside of search

Jgrubb 3y ago
My work laptop recently started having issues with the keyboard so I got a loaner, an unopened M1 Pro. It was still on an older version of the Mac OS, and I am so bummed that they want it back. The UI that you're referring to is malpractice.
wkat4242 3y ago
System preferences was a really poor design tbh. It just felt so easy because it had been there so long and everyone had the muscle memory. The new one is not much better I agree. But the old one was objectively not great in terms of UX Design. The main problem with the new one in my opinion is that they're shoehorning a mobile experience on the Mac. Something Apple does more and more (and not just Apple, gnome does it too)
- imbnwa 3y ago
  >The main problem with the new one in my opinion is that they're shoehorning a mobile experience on the Mac. Something Apple does more and more (and not just Apple, gnome does it too) A cost effectiveness measure over a well-thought out one, methinks
- ryandrake 3y ago
  The old System Preferences showed large, easily differentiable icons, front and center in a nice big grid. The new Settings app shows tiny, barely differentiable icons, hugging the left-most edge of the app. With the old System Preferences, I could immediately tell you where the "Display" and "Privacy & Security" icons could be found. In the new Settings app, I challenge you to tell me where they are in the list without looking.
MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
Honestly, I'm not even sure that this is a problem that can be solved. There are too many settings you could access, with no obvious single way to categorize them all. Search is probably the best you can do.

agloe_dreams 3y ago

The best example of this is the macOS document proxies. They were a sensical representation of an icon you can drag and drop, now they are hidden under a hover of the title that stupidly animates it out. Anybody would would make a critical productivity feature a hidden hover should be canned from a UX team. This choice was defended by Alan Dye.

pimlottc 3y ago
Sorry, what are document proxies? EDIT: Oh, is this it? [0]. I can't say I ever noticed that before (when it still existed) 0: https://osxdaily.com/2014/08/20/open-files-new-app-proxy-icon-mac-os-x/ https://osxdaily.com/2014/08/20/open-files-new-app-proxy-ico...
- uxamanda 3y ago
  Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I just tried that flow with a Pages document and it still works in Sonoma. Drag the icon from the header, drop into an email. Now I'm curious what the old feature was.
  - tomjakubowski 3y ago
    What's changed is that newer versions of the OS hide the file proxy icon by default. You have to hover the cursor over the title for a second to see it, or to interact with it. Before, it was always visible, and ready to be clicked + dragged.
    - nudgeee 3y ago
      I think there’s an option somewhere to enable it, but yeah annoying it’s not default.
      - uxamanda 3y ago
        Ah maybe I changed this setting at some point and don't remember. It is always there for me, not only on hover.

amelius 3y ago

> I used to think Apple was the king of UIs. Heh. There was a time when you had to upgrade your OS by ... first going into iTunes. Maybe this is still the case. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108964 https://support.apple.com/en-us/108964

tomjakubowski 3y ago
You're talking about iOS. We can only judge these things in context. What was the first Android version where everyone could receive updates for the OS over-the-air, not going through a computer + USB port? And when did Apple support the same for iOS?