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Walmart to buy TV maker Vizio for $2.3B

138 points by jmsflknr 3y ago

idunno246 3y ago
Vizio recently changed their firmware on my tv to require you to use the smart cast app just to watch antenna. It's slow and buggy and causes nothing but problems, the people writing the software clearly never use one of these tvs. Dumb stuff like it would mute my receiver every time I switch channels and immediately unmute, except sometimes the unmute would fail. It’s a shame, it was a great little tv, but this push for more ad views means I’d never recommend a Vizio to anyone. I know the common refrain is don’t connect tv to the internet, but for whatever reason the Vizio showed up in chromecast at times when the Roku stick wouldn’t, otherwise didn’t use tv smart features
- ngokevin 3y ago
  On the other hand, I got a Vizio. I've been loving every update. They've added wireless Bluetooth support so I can connect with headphones, made the UI extremely snappy, made the volume overlay be non-obtrusive in the corner.
  - jonnycoder 3y ago
    Hey I worked on that project along with bluetooth voice remote. I personally spent a few weeks during Christmas time (2020 or 2019?) making sure the bluetooth pairing process was rock solid. Ending up root causing two deadlock bugs that had a repro rate of like 1 in 50. The engineering leadership was going downhill with layoffs and politics. We would have the quality of the firmware/smartcast be rock solid and then following quarter it took a nose dive. Some of the best people I ever worked with are no longer there. And last I know, VIZIO isn't like samsung and tries to randomly find an internet connection to update firmware. I still use my free 70in with Apple TV and it is great because I disconnected it from the internet (after I was laid off).
- chatmasta 3y ago
  It's insane that "changed their firmware on my tv" is even something that can happen. I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Personally, I don't own any TV, since I use my monitors. But it does beg the question of why monitors don't have these kinds of issues. Why are companies happy to sell me a "dumb" monitor, but won't sell me a TV unless it includes a bunch of fragile "smart" features? The trend of coupling the TV to the computer (as opposed to using something like Chromecast) is the primary driver of the enshittification of the TV market. And this shouldn't be surprising - just look at what happened when the auto industry tried to invent and maintain their own entertainment systems. Ironically, they eventually came around to decoupling and delegating that work to Apple and Google, whereas TVs had it right at first and then made it worse. I understand the business reasons why TV manufacturers want to own the computer part of their TV too. But it still doesn't have to be tightly coupled to the TV. If they really believed in their product, they could sell a dumb TV along with a dongle that competes with Chromecast. But if their product sucks and nobody would buy it, then they need to resort to forcing it on consumers as the default mode of operation.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    > I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. TVs from about a decade ago fit the bill while being of "acceptable" 1080p quality. Lord knows the manufacturers aren't bothering with updates anymore if they even supported them. My primary TV is a Samsung from 2012 and I've never felt the need to upgrade. I can't tell any quality difference from any non-high end TV today.
    - unclebucknasty 3y ago
      This should be a consumer protection issue across the board. So, you're using a free or subscription service that's enshittifying. Bad enough, but okay just stop using it or unsubscribe. But, the idea that you can outright buy a product then have it change in any way that materially impacts its usefulness or your satisfaction with it is customer hostile at a minimum; and straight-up fraud at worst. Between everything-as-a-subscription, monopolies, the rise of the billionaire oligarchy, defanging of our regulatory apparatus, Citizens United, etc. we're becoming a society of semi-autonomous renters. But, I guess we shouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, Zuck will bring us our VR utopia, and we'll all be eating steak in the matrix.
- avgDev 3y ago
  After owning my Vizio TV for like 4 years I am taking it back to Costco. The experience has gotten progressively worse with the updates. It is just so laggy and extremely frustrating. I'm going to tell costco the updates ruined the TV.
  - footlose_3815 3y ago
    As a rule of thumb, I never connect my smart TVs to the internet. I go chromecast or PC connection. Some may say there may be improvements, but the streamed ads, and surveillance and phoning home of my behavior, the benefits of privacy certainly outweigh the downsides.
    - theryan 3y ago
      I used to love my Chromecast but I feel like it's gone downhill significantly. The amount of bloat and ads when you fire it up is annoying. Thankfully there is an 'Apps only' mode now but you are still plastered with ads before you can select an app.
    - ssgodderidge 3y ago
      I did the same thing with my old Samsung. Disconnected it from wifi and immediately had way faster boot-up times. The ads were really bogging it down. Somehow, 3 years later, it still recommends the movie "Hancock" every time I turn it on. Perhaps it was the last ad it ever fetched? And it has an eternal cache? Who knows. Turn off wifi, get a chromecast, an Apple TV, or a gaming console.
      - avgDev 3y ago
        Consoles are getting ads now too.
        footlose_3815 3y ago
        Yes. Ever since Microsoft started serving ads with "Tiles" on the new Xbox 360 interface, back in Windows 8 era, the enshittification began the creep. Xbox one, it's bundles of ads. When it first released, the UX was so horrible, I remember getting lost trying to find the menu to launch a game from disc. I had to page through ads just to find it. Playstation, there's popups, and non-disable-able promotions for games and subsriptions. (There's also these "Stories" I think they're called, that tell you about the progress in a game, that are heavy with spoilers"). Both interfaces are masterclasses in optimizing noise/signal and adding as much noise as possible before the user stops using it.
- we_love_idf 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - cooper_ganglia 3y ago
    Ironically, the only “whiner” comment I’ve seen has been this one, whining about people whining. The topic is about Walmart purchasing Vizio. Discussing the quality of Vizio’s products, their business practices, and anecdotal experience + general discussion about the companies involved in the purchase are entirely reasonable.
    - we_love_idf 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - callalex 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - kevincrane 3y ago
      Complaining that no one actually read or is engaging with the posted article is absolutely less whiny than airing grievances that are only tangentially related to the posted topic.
  - idunno246 3y ago
    The article said they were buying it for the ad business, and the ad business it’s what is actively making the tvs worse
- ztetranz 3y ago
  This was a big deal to RV / motorhome users. I remember a Reddit thread where people were complaining that they couldn't use the TV without internet service. There were some Vizio people on the thread insisting that you don't need internet so I don't know the whole truth but at seems at least it wasn't obvious to a non-technical user how to simply connect an antenna and watch over the air TV. My RV has a Vizio TV but it's old enough to not be smart. I don't watch OTA anyway.
  - bonton89 3y ago
    The next OTA broadcast standard has an internet connection requirement for targeted ads built into it, that is how far gone we are. My policy is to never connect these TVs to the internet. If I accidentally bought one that required it I would return it to the store as defective. Of course, that won't stop them from programming the firmware to wait until outside the return period to start demanding internet access. And I expect sets to start showing up with built in 5G you can't turn off quite soon. The perversion of ad and user tracking will never be satisfied, it is a cancer that only stops if the host cells have entirely died.
verticalscaler 3y ago
The title is unnecessarily cropped from: "Walmart to buy TV maker Vizio for $2.3 billion in move to grow its ad business". Crikey.
kotaKat 3y ago
I'm... oddly glad I got in on a Vizio at the weirdest time of their "smart" history. I got mine when it was just Chromecast Built-In -- a Chromecast just acting like a virtual input alongside a couple HDMI ports. No other streaming bullshit, just a mirroring client. In one way I was very angry I found out I was "abandoned" by Vizio and couldn't get their "new streaming experience" they were delivering, but looking back I'm now very glad all my "smart" TV is is a very dumb Chromecast.
bayindirh 3y ago
> "We believe VIZIO’s customer-centric operating system provides great viewing experiences at attractive price points. We also believe it enables a profitable advertising business that is rapidly scaling,” Customer-centric ad-pumping platform which consumers love. What a great and lovely contradiction.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Alot of these ad centric platform moves fund things like the popular free TV apps like Tubi and Freevee. Vizio had an eye on something not dissimilar, and Walmart until 2020 owned Vudu and while that didn't pan out in this space, I think they see this as another avenue in that space to try again, its relatively good business if you can manage it. I'm honestly shocked they didn't buy Roku yet. Not that I like it, but I see their business reasoning here. There's a whole new set of streaming services that are becoming similar to over the air TV delivery in the sense that they're 100% ad supported and Vizio wanted in on that, and I think Walmart does too. Its not only about showing "homescreen" ads, though that itself is a surprisingly burgeoning advertising business. All this is to say, I'm glad I have an Apple TV and I don't put up with any of this. None of my TVs have ever connected to the internet. The next one I buy might just be a monitor made to purpose
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    I'm a person who generally prefers to pay money rather than attention and time, but if people really like to be bombed with ads and (mind) seeds planted to their brains, I can't argue. On the other hand, I don't watch "TV". I watch a couple of shows semi-regularly and use my TV as a glorified HDR monitor for movies I own or as a second screen, that's all.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      >but if people really like to be bombed with ads and (mind) seeds planted to their brains, I can't argue. I can argue. The whole point of society is that we can choose to say "no, you can't have/do the thing YOU want because it has externalities that affect everyone else" The advertising economy is corrosive and toxic to society
segasaturn 3y ago
Unfortunate that it sounds like they're going to use their platform to shove even more ads in our faces, Wal-mart has oddly become one of the last places you can still find a brand new "dumb" TV.
_chu1 3y ago
Another brand that was moderately OK about 10 years ago down the drain, but they've been on a path of enshittification since about 2017. My family bought a brand new Vizio TV for our living room in 2022 and that thing is nothing but headaches. It forcibly updated once while I was playing my PS3, took 15 minutes and I wasn't even showed a changelog or any reason I should've had to update. We should've just saved up for a Sony, but we had no working TV in the living room.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > but they've been on a path of enshittification since about 2017. My family bought a brand new Vizio TV for our living room in 2022 and that thing is nothing but headaches. It sounds like you knew it was on the path of enshittification since 2017, so then WHY would you buy one 5 years into that descent that you decry?
  - _chu1 3y ago
    I'm a teenager, I don't spend the money in this house.
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      Apologies then for assuming the buy decision was up to you or that you could influence it.
      - _chu1 3y ago
        Yeah, it's about the same as how my dad buys those Amazon Echo things. I absolutely hate them and am incredibly uncomfortable with having them in the house, but he sees no issue with them whatsoever despite the fact nobody uses them and they just suck up our power. He's quite the impulse customer however, so I can see why he would buy anything Amazon would show him that remotely resembles a "good deal". He was really confused when he got that big Echo Show they came out with that could run Fire TV applications because it was like $30 one Christmas and I told him I really hated it.
someonehere 3y ago
For those looking for dumb TVs since Vizio sort of was a last holdout (although I’m reading they’ve recently become more garbage like), may I suggest the commercial kiosk versions of popular brands? I’ve found that you pay a little more but they don’t have the crappy OS installed and it’s just a dumb TV. You’re paying more to remove the ad experience manufacturers want you to use hence the price tradeoff.
- j-bos 3y ago
  Any suggestions on where they can be bought?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    We have a "reuse center" in our town that sometimes has good deals on older TVs which may lack these features. https://ithacareuse.org/ https://ithacareuse.org/ there may be something like that in your town. For the rest of us there is Ebay.
- theturtletalks 3y ago
  I would also look into Sceptre at Walmart. I got a dumb 43” 4K TV for $150 out the door.
- refracture 3y ago
  Would you be able to buy say.. an LG C3 that has things like Dolby Vision/HDR10, VRR, 120hz? I'm skeptical Dolby Vision would be present on a display not intended for movies given the licensing fees to Dolby. I'm a fan of dumb TVs in theory but I'd rather just airgap a smart TV and plug in an Apple TV than lose DV and the like.
  - hellisothers 3y ago
    Agreed on all counts, airgapping a TV is trivial I don’t get the complaining here for a dumb TV (aside for less technical people). That said, my LG G2 will full screen block content to show a “voice control” feature awareness notification that tells me to connect the TV to the internet about once a month :/
PaulHoule 3y ago
I had an old Vizio set that I really loved before they went "smart"; what I liked about it was that whoever designed it thought really hard about the bank for the buck for features. It was a fairly chunky set that would be a pain to wall mount but it had good-sized speakers in it. I had it connected to a soundbar but the soundbar wasn't much better than the internal speakers so I hooked up the soundbar to my PC in the "living room". A high-end Sony has 4-7 HDMI ports that will burn out over time (that's why you have a huge number of ports) but the Vizio had just two. I had the Vizio fail on me and somebody gave me a bottom-of-the-line Samsung which is also not "smart" that I don't like anywhere near as much. I have been thinking about getting a 4K HDR set or maybe a used 3D set for a long time and also about upgrading my computer monitor but with free TV sets showing up I never get around to it.
j-bos 3y ago
Does anyone have info on how this might affect lawsuit regarding Vizio's violations of GPL licencing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39075136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39075136
- pabs3 3y ago
  Walmart does have an open source office, they might have some thoughts. https://ospo.co/case-studies/why-we-run-an-open-source-program-at-walmart-labs/ https://ospo.co/case-studies/why-we-run-an-open-source-progr... https://github.com/walmartlabs https://github.com/walmartlabs
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
This is 100% a data play Vizio TVs are the worst for data privacy, and brands are clawing for new data sources. Beware these kinds of deals as the worst of all worlds
- nwsm 3y ago
  > Vizio TVs are the worst for data privacy Can you expand on this?
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-advertising-inscape-data-privacy-q3-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-adver... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/vizio-tracked-sold-user-data-millions-smart-tvs-ftc-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/vizio-tracked-sold-u...
    - wmf 3y ago
      Sadly, every TV brand is doing this now.
epiccoleman 3y ago
I know Vizio is considered more of a low-end brand, but I have a ... probably 2010s era Vizio that's one of the best TVs I've had. 32" or something, never had a single issue with it. It's a dumb panel that displays whatever I put on it. How a TV should be. I had a more recent 65" Vizio (2020, I think?) in my living room, which was also a great TV. It was something like $600 (crazy cheap for the size!), great picture, never connected it to the net, always worked like a charm. Was a great panel for my Nvidia Shield. That TV was broken in an unfortunate incident involving a toddler and a thrown wrench, and was replaced with a similarly priced TCL TV (which was the best rated one in my price range on Rtings at the time). That TV is nothing less than a hunk of shit - constant sound issues, molasses slow UI, built in Roku stuff is all crap. Picture is decent, but I liked the Vizio better. I've often considered shelling out the big bucks for a better model TV, but given the industry trends I'm terrified of the thought of spending triple the price of my current TV and still hating it. Happy to pay for good quality, but just extremely skeptical of most offerings in the market these days.
- maxrecursion 3y ago
  I want to offer supporting evidence. Had a Vizio that is closing in on a decade old and runs great. Was given a TCL 4k Roku TV that is a piece of crap. Can't complain too much since it was free, but I'll never buy a TCL or Roku TV. And I used Roku's for almost a decade since I was an early cord cutter. Both of the early cord cutting companies that drove all this are on the decline: Roku and Sling. Google especially has stolen a lot of marker share with Chromecast and YouTube TV, respectfully. Kind of sad to see it happen, but monopolies are the norm now.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    I had a higher end TCL Roku TV that was pretty nice, actually. I know I used one at a rental unit that was an absolute piece of junk - I’m a little surprised they didn’t have the thought to make two separate brands.
  - Rapzid 3y ago
    You're Roku TCL may be a POC, but TCL puts out televisions that are at the forefront of LCD/LED TV technology. Very happy with my 55R655.
ranman 3y ago
If this clears anti-trust but Amazon/iRobot didn't then we'll know the anti-trust side of things is just based on your lobbying spend.
- thisislife2 3y ago
  You make a good point and I don't get why you are being downvoted. > Reuters reported earlier this month the deal would be blocked by European Commission antitrust regulators and that its main concerns were that Amazon could thwart iRobot rivals on its online marketplace, especially in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain. Amazon could have delisted rival robot vacuum cleaners, reduce visibility of rivals or raised costs of iRobot's rivals to advertise and sell their robot vacuum cleaners on Amazon's marketplace, Vestager added. - https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/amazon-irobot-abandon-merger-face-eu-opposition-2024-01-29/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/amazon-irobot-abandon-... The same can be said about this deal too. And ofcourse, since Vizio is a data harvester and broker, there's the additional privacy angle involved.
  - jccalhoun 3y ago
    Is Wal-Mart a big retailer in Europe? From what I've seen it doesn't seem to have any stores in Europe?
    - petepete 3y ago
      Walmart own ASDA, one of Britain's 'big 4' supermarket chains.
      - pgh 3y ago
        Not any longer, they sold it off in 2020 and only retain a minority share.
bilsbie 3y ago
I feel like this and LG are actually quite good brands.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
good to know what brand to avoid going forward
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Some more discussion last week ahead of the deal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39369982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39369982
tiltowait 3y ago
Match made in Hell. I liked my Vizio TV at first, but it gradually became awful through firmware updates, to the point I sometimes actively hope the thing will break. Walmart will no doubt find ways to make it even worse, but this brand is no great loss.
glimshe 3y ago
Vizio electronics tend to have pretty decent value, especially the sound bars. But know what you are buying: Vizio doesn't make anything good, just good enough. Vizio, TCL etc are great for, let's say, guest bedroom TVs, kitchen TVs but if you can afford it, the Japanese and Korean electronic brands tend to be a lot better for your main electronics.
themadturk 3y ago
I don't know if I'm just lucky or what, but the 55 inch Samsung I got at Costco for around $400 works great. It's smart, but we never connected it to the Internet...it just shows a graphic asking where wifi is, closes it after about 15 seconds, and goes on being a TV. We get streaming from an external Roku, which has minimal advertising on its home screen. Someday we'll get a soundbar for it, but sound is OK for now.
pabs3 3y ago
Wonder if the GPL compliance lawsuit against Vizio will affect that... https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html
zhanghuang12 3y ago
[dead]
ulf-77723 3y ago
Television rules the nation

138 points by jmsflknr 3y ago

Vizio recently changed their firmware on my tv to require you to use the smart cast app just to watch antenna. It's slow and buggy and causes nothing but problems, the people writing the software clearly never use one of these tvs. Dumb stuff like it would mute my receiver every time I switch channels and immediately unmute, except sometimes the unmute would fail. It’s a shame, it was a great little tv, but this push for more ad views means I’d never recommend a Vizio to anyone. I know the common refrain is don’t connect tv to the internet, but for whatever reason the Vizio showed up in chromecast at times when the Roku stick wouldn’t, otherwise didn’t use tv smart features

ngokevin 3y ago
On the other hand, I got a Vizio. I've been loving every update. They've added wireless Bluetooth support so I can connect with headphones, made the UI extremely snappy, made the volume overlay be non-obtrusive in the corner.
- jonnycoder 3y ago
  Hey I worked on that project along with bluetooth voice remote. I personally spent a few weeks during Christmas time (2020 or 2019?) making sure the bluetooth pairing process was rock solid. Ending up root causing two deadlock bugs that had a repro rate of like 1 in 50. The engineering leadership was going downhill with layoffs and politics. We would have the quality of the firmware/smartcast be rock solid and then following quarter it took a nose dive. Some of the best people I ever worked with are no longer there. And last I know, VIZIO isn't like samsung and tries to randomly find an internet connection to update firmware. I still use my free 70in with Apple TV and it is great because I disconnected it from the internet (after I was laid off).
chatmasta 3y ago
It's insane that "changed their firmware on my tv" is even something that can happen. I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. Personally, I don't own any TV, since I use my monitors. But it does beg the question of why monitors don't have these kinds of issues. Why are companies happy to sell me a "dumb" monitor, but won't sell me a TV unless it includes a bunch of fragile "smart" features? The trend of coupling the TV to the computer (as opposed to using something like Chromecast) is the primary driver of the enshittification of the TV market. And this shouldn't be surprising - just look at what happened when the auto industry tried to invent and maintain their own entertainment systems. Ironically, they eventually came around to decoupling and delegating that work to Apple and Google, whereas TVs had it right at first and then made it worse. I understand the business reasons why TV manufacturers want to own the computer part of their TV too. But it still doesn't have to be tightly coupled to the TV. If they really believed in their product, they could sell a dumb TV along with a dongle that competes with Chromecast. But if their product sucks and nobody would buy it, then they need to resort to forcing it on consumers as the default mode of operation.
- Spivak 3y ago
  > I'd like to buy a TV and know it will work the same in two decades as it does today. TVs from about a decade ago fit the bill while being of "acceptable" 1080p quality. Lord knows the manufacturers aren't bothering with updates anymore if they even supported them. My primary TV is a Samsung from 2012 and I've never felt the need to upgrade. I can't tell any quality difference from any non-high end TV today.
  - unclebucknasty 3y ago
    This should be a consumer protection issue across the board. So, you're using a free or subscription service that's enshittifying. Bad enough, but okay just stop using it or unsubscribe. But, the idea that you can outright buy a product then have it change in any way that materially impacts its usefulness or your satisfaction with it is customer hostile at a minimum; and straight-up fraud at worst. Between everything-as-a-subscription, monopolies, the rise of the billionaire oligarchy, defanging of our regulatory apparatus, Citizens United, etc. we're becoming a society of semi-autonomous renters. But, I guess we shouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, Zuck will bring us our VR utopia, and we'll all be eating steak in the matrix.
avgDev 3y ago
After owning my Vizio TV for like 4 years I am taking it back to Costco. The experience has gotten progressively worse with the updates. It is just so laggy and extremely frustrating. I'm going to tell costco the updates ruined the TV.
- footlose_3815 3y ago
  As a rule of thumb, I never connect my smart TVs to the internet. I go chromecast or PC connection. Some may say there may be improvements, but the streamed ads, and surveillance and phoning home of my behavior, the benefits of privacy certainly outweigh the downsides.
  - theryan 3y ago
    I used to love my Chromecast but I feel like it's gone downhill significantly. The amount of bloat and ads when you fire it up is annoying. Thankfully there is an 'Apps only' mode now but you are still plastered with ads before you can select an app.
  - ssgodderidge 3y ago
    I did the same thing with my old Samsung. Disconnected it from wifi and immediately had way faster boot-up times. The ads were really bogging it down. Somehow, 3 years later, it still recommends the movie "Hancock" every time I turn it on. Perhaps it was the last ad it ever fetched? And it has an eternal cache? Who knows. Turn off wifi, get a chromecast, an Apple TV, or a gaming console.
    - avgDev 3y ago
      Consoles are getting ads now too.
      - footlose_3815 3y ago
        Yes. Ever since Microsoft started serving ads with "Tiles" on the new Xbox 360 interface, back in Windows 8 era, the enshittification began the creep. Xbox one, it's bundles of ads. When it first released, the UX was so horrible, I remember getting lost trying to find the menu to launch a game from disc. I had to page through ads just to find it. Playstation, there's popups, and non-disable-able promotions for games and subsriptions. (There's also these "Stories" I think they're called, that tell you about the progress in a game, that are heavy with spoilers"). Both interfaces are masterclasses in optimizing noise/signal and adding as much noise as possible before the user stops using it.
we_love_idf 3y ago
[flagged]
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  Ironically, the only “whiner” comment I’ve seen has been this one, whining about people whining. The topic is about Walmart purchasing Vizio. Discussing the quality of Vizio’s products, their business practices, and anecdotal experience + general discussion about the companies involved in the purchase are entirely reasonable.
  - we_love_idf 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - callalex 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - kevincrane 3y ago
    Complaining that no one actually read or is engaging with the posted article is absolutely less whiny than airing grievances that are only tangentially related to the posted topic.
- idunno246 3y ago
  The article said they were buying it for the ad business, and the ad business it’s what is actively making the tvs worse
ztetranz 3y ago
This was a big deal to RV / motorhome users. I remember a Reddit thread where people were complaining that they couldn't use the TV without internet service. There were some Vizio people on the thread insisting that you don't need internet so I don't know the whole truth but at seems at least it wasn't obvious to a non-technical user how to simply connect an antenna and watch over the air TV. My RV has a Vizio TV but it's old enough to not be smart. I don't watch OTA anyway.
- bonton89 3y ago
  The next OTA broadcast standard has an internet connection requirement for targeted ads built into it, that is how far gone we are. My policy is to never connect these TVs to the internet. If I accidentally bought one that required it I would return it to the store as defective. Of course, that won't stop them from programming the firmware to wait until outside the return period to start demanding internet access. And I expect sets to start showing up with built in 5G you can't turn off quite soon. The perversion of ad and user tracking will never be satisfied, it is a cancer that only stops if the host cells have entirely died.

verticalscaler 3y ago

The title is unnecessarily cropped from: "Walmart to buy TV maker Vizio for $2.3 billion in move to grow its ad business". Crikey.

kotaKat 3y ago

I'm... oddly glad I got in on a Vizio at the weirdest time of their "smart" history. I got mine when it was just Chromecast Built-In -- a Chromecast just acting like a virtual input alongside a couple HDMI ports. No other streaming bullshit, just a mirroring client. In one way I was very angry I found out I was "abandoned" by Vizio and couldn't get their "new streaming experience" they were delivering, but looking back I'm now very glad all my "smart" TV is is a very dumb Chromecast.

bayindirh 3y ago

> "We believe VIZIO’s customer-centric operating system provides great viewing experiences at attractive price points. We also believe it enables a profitable advertising business that is rapidly scaling,” Customer-centric ad-pumping platform which consumers love. What a great and lovely contradiction.

no_wizard 3y ago
Alot of these ad centric platform moves fund things like the popular free TV apps like Tubi and Freevee. Vizio had an eye on something not dissimilar, and Walmart until 2020 owned Vudu and while that didn't pan out in this space, I think they see this as another avenue in that space to try again, its relatively good business if you can manage it. I'm honestly shocked they didn't buy Roku yet. Not that I like it, but I see their business reasoning here. There's a whole new set of streaming services that are becoming similar to over the air TV delivery in the sense that they're 100% ad supported and Vizio wanted in on that, and I think Walmart does too. Its not only about showing "homescreen" ads, though that itself is a surprisingly burgeoning advertising business. All this is to say, I'm glad I have an Apple TV and I don't put up with any of this. None of my TVs have ever connected to the internet. The next one I buy might just be a monitor made to purpose
- bayindirh 3y ago
  I'm a person who generally prefers to pay money rather than attention and time, but if people really like to be bombed with ads and (mind) seeds planted to their brains, I can't argue. On the other hand, I don't watch "TV". I watch a couple of shows semi-regularly and use my TV as a glorified HDR monitor for movies I own or as a second screen, that's all.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    >but if people really like to be bombed with ads and (mind) seeds planted to their brains, I can't argue. I can argue. The whole point of society is that we can choose to say "no, you can't have/do the thing YOU want because it has externalities that affect everyone else" The advertising economy is corrosive and toxic to society

segasaturn 3y ago

Unfortunate that it sounds like they're going to use their platform to shove even more ads in our faces, Wal-mart has oddly become one of the last places you can still find a brand new "dumb" TV.

_chu1 3y ago

Another brand that was moderately OK about 10 years ago down the drain, but they've been on a path of enshittification since about 2017. My family bought a brand new Vizio TV for our living room in 2022 and that thing is nothing but headaches. It forcibly updated once while I was playing my PS3, took 15 minutes and I wasn't even showed a changelog or any reason I should've had to update. We should've just saved up for a Sony, but we had no working TV in the living room.

andsoitis 3y ago
> but they've been on a path of enshittification since about 2017. My family bought a brand new Vizio TV for our living room in 2022 and that thing is nothing but headaches. It sounds like you knew it was on the path of enshittification since 2017, so then WHY would you buy one 5 years into that descent that you decry?
- _chu1 3y ago
  I'm a teenager, I don't spend the money in this house.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    Apologies then for assuming the buy decision was up to you or that you could influence it.
    - _chu1 3y ago
      Yeah, it's about the same as how my dad buys those Amazon Echo things. I absolutely hate them and am incredibly uncomfortable with having them in the house, but he sees no issue with them whatsoever despite the fact nobody uses them and they just suck up our power. He's quite the impulse customer however, so I can see why he would buy anything Amazon would show him that remotely resembles a "good deal". He was really confused when he got that big Echo Show they came out with that could run Fire TV applications because it was like $30 one Christmas and I told him I really hated it.

someonehere 3y ago

For those looking for dumb TVs since Vizio sort of was a last holdout (although I’m reading they’ve recently become more garbage like), may I suggest the commercial kiosk versions of popular brands? I’ve found that you pay a little more but they don’t have the crappy OS installed and it’s just a dumb TV. You’re paying more to remove the ad experience manufacturers want you to use hence the price tradeoff.

j-bos 3y ago
Any suggestions on where they can be bought?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  We have a "reuse center" in our town that sometimes has good deals on older TVs which may lack these features. https://ithacareuse.org/ https://ithacareuse.org/ there may be something like that in your town. For the rest of us there is Ebay.
theturtletalks 3y ago
I would also look into Sceptre at Walmart. I got a dumb 43” 4K TV for $150 out the door.
refracture 3y ago
Would you be able to buy say.. an LG C3 that has things like Dolby Vision/HDR10, VRR, 120hz? I'm skeptical Dolby Vision would be present on a display not intended for movies given the licensing fees to Dolby. I'm a fan of dumb TVs in theory but I'd rather just airgap a smart TV and plug in an Apple TV than lose DV and the like.
- hellisothers 3y ago
  Agreed on all counts, airgapping a TV is trivial I don’t get the complaining here for a dumb TV (aside for less technical people). That said, my LG G2 will full screen block content to show a “voice control” feature awareness notification that tells me to connect the TV to the internet about once a month :/

PaulHoule 3y ago

I had an old Vizio set that I really loved before they went "smart"; what I liked about it was that whoever designed it thought really hard about the bank for the buck for features. It was a fairly chunky set that would be a pain to wall mount but it had good-sized speakers in it. I had it connected to a soundbar but the soundbar wasn't much better than the internal speakers so I hooked up the soundbar to my PC in the "living room". A high-end Sony has 4-7 HDMI ports that will burn out over time (that's why you have a huge number of ports) but the Vizio had just two. I had the Vizio fail on me and somebody gave me a bottom-of-the-line Samsung which is also not "smart" that I don't like anywhere near as much. I have been thinking about getting a 4K HDR set or maybe a used 3D set for a long time and also about upgrading my computer monitor but with free TV sets showing up I never get around to it.

j-bos 3y ago

Does anyone have info on how this might affect lawsuit regarding Vizio's violations of GPL licencing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39075136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39075136

pabs3 3y ago
Walmart does have an open source office, they might have some thoughts. https://ospo.co/case-studies/why-we-run-an-open-source-program-at-walmart-labs/ https://ospo.co/case-studies/why-we-run-an-open-source-progr... https://github.com/walmartlabs https://github.com/walmartlabs

deleted 3y ago

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AndrewKemendo 3y ago

This is 100% a data play Vizio TVs are the worst for data privacy, and brands are clawing for new data sources. Beware these kinds of deals as the worst of all worlds

nwsm 3y ago
> Vizio TVs are the worst for data privacy Can you expand on this?
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-advertising-inscape-data-privacy-q3-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-adver... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/vizio-tracked-sold-user-data-millions-smart-tvs-ftc-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/vizio-tracked-sold-u...
  - wmf 3y ago
    Sadly, every TV brand is doing this now.

epiccoleman 3y ago

I know Vizio is considered more of a low-end brand, but I have a ... probably 2010s era Vizio that's one of the best TVs I've had. 32" or something, never had a single issue with it. It's a dumb panel that displays whatever I put on it. How a TV should be. I had a more recent 65" Vizio (2020, I think?) in my living room, which was also a great TV. It was something like $600 (crazy cheap for the size!), great picture, never connected it to the net, always worked like a charm. Was a great panel for my Nvidia Shield. That TV was broken in an unfortunate incident involving a toddler and a thrown wrench, and was replaced with a similarly priced TCL TV (which was the best rated one in my price range on Rtings at the time). That TV is nothing less than a hunk of shit - constant sound issues, molasses slow UI, built in Roku stuff is all crap. Picture is decent, but I liked the Vizio better. I've often considered shelling out the big bucks for a better model TV, but given the industry trends I'm terrified of the thought of spending triple the price of my current TV and still hating it. Happy to pay for good quality, but just extremely skeptical of most offerings in the market these days.

maxrecursion 3y ago
I want to offer supporting evidence. Had a Vizio that is closing in on a decade old and runs great. Was given a TCL 4k Roku TV that is a piece of crap. Can't complain too much since it was free, but I'll never buy a TCL or Roku TV. And I used Roku's for almost a decade since I was an early cord cutter. Both of the early cord cutting companies that drove all this are on the decline: Roku and Sling. Google especially has stolen a lot of marker share with Chromecast and YouTube TV, respectfully. Kind of sad to see it happen, but monopolies are the norm now.
- Auracle 3y ago
  I had a higher end TCL Roku TV that was pretty nice, actually. I know I used one at a rental unit that was an absolute piece of junk - I’m a little surprised they didn’t have the thought to make two separate brands.
- Rapzid 3y ago
  You're Roku TCL may be a POC, but TCL puts out televisions that are at the forefront of LCD/LED TV technology. Very happy with my 55R655.

ranman 3y ago

If this clears anti-trust but Amazon/iRobot didn't then we'll know the anti-trust side of things is just based on your lobbying spend.

thisislife2 3y ago
You make a good point and I don't get why you are being downvoted. > Reuters reported earlier this month the deal would be blocked by European Commission antitrust regulators and that its main concerns were that Amazon could thwart iRobot rivals on its online marketplace, especially in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain. Amazon could have delisted rival robot vacuum cleaners, reduce visibility of rivals or raised costs of iRobot's rivals to advertise and sell their robot vacuum cleaners on Amazon's marketplace, Vestager added. - https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/amazon-irobot-abandon-merger-face-eu-opposition-2024-01-29/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/amazon-irobot-abandon-... The same can be said about this deal too. And ofcourse, since Vizio is a data harvester and broker, there's the additional privacy angle involved.
- jccalhoun 3y ago
  Is Wal-Mart a big retailer in Europe? From what I've seen it doesn't seem to have any stores in Europe?
  - petepete 3y ago
    Walmart own ASDA, one of Britain's 'big 4' supermarket chains.
    - pgh 3y ago
      Not any longer, they sold it off in 2020 and only retain a minority share.

bilsbie 3y ago

I feel like this and LG are actually quite good brands.

insane_dreamer 3y ago

good to know what brand to avoid going forward

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Some more discussion last week ahead of the deal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39369982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39369982

tiltowait 3y ago

Match made in Hell. I liked my Vizio TV at first, but it gradually became awful through firmware updates, to the point I sometimes actively hope the thing will break. Walmart will no doubt find ways to make it even worse, but this brand is no great loss.

glimshe 3y ago

Vizio electronics tend to have pretty decent value, especially the sound bars. But know what you are buying: Vizio doesn't make anything good, just good enough. Vizio, TCL etc are great for, let's say, guest bedroom TVs, kitchen TVs but if you can afford it, the Japanese and Korean electronic brands tend to be a lot better for your main electronics.

themadturk 3y ago

I don't know if I'm just lucky or what, but the 55 inch Samsung I got at Costco for around $400 works great. It's smart, but we never connected it to the Internet...it just shows a graphic asking where wifi is, closes it after about 15 seconds, and goes on being a TV. We get streaming from an external Roku, which has minimal advertising on its home screen. Someday we'll get a soundbar for it, but sound is OK for now.

pabs3 3y ago

Wonder if the GPL compliance lawsuit against Vizio will affect that... https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

zhanghuang12 3y ago

[dead]

ulf-77723 3y ago

Television rules the nation