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Just because you have a lot of high skyscraper doesn't mean you have an adequate supply. I have seen pictures of those high rise apartment buildings. What's cl

by kiba 3y ago

Just because you have a lot of high skyscraper doesn't mean you have an adequate supply. I have seen pictures of those high rise apartment buildings. What's clear to me is that they're frequently skinny and tall. The tallness of these structures can be misleading, because we're not accounting for total volume of a building. You can have a lot of density with relatively low height and greater area of space occupied. These may be green spaces or parks. Filling in those area with more building volume doesn't mean green spaces are impossible, but it would be an engineering challenge to put green spaces on the roof. If you wish to see truly insane population density. You should see images of Kowloon walled city and compare that to Hong Kong. They're not really comparable. Kowloon Walled City is only 10 to 14 of stories high. There are certainly buildings higher than that in Hong Kong. In any case, housing cost is determined by demand and supply. If there's sufficient supply of housing, the price would go down. If there's insufficient housing, the cost would rise. It doesn't matter if your city is hyperdense or not.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Apartment buildings in Asia are around 30 stories tall, which is the limit where you can use low skill labor and cheaper materials (going higher requires more skill and cost). Each floor has around 4-5 units, they have to be like that due to window requirements. Even China isn’t going to let you build a fat deep building with many non window units, which are called death traps. I lived in these buildings for 9 years, they are about as dense as you can get until things get very expensive or very dangerous. Kowloon walled city was torn down in the early 90s for good reasons.
- kiba 3y ago
  That's simply a problem of engineering design and building code regulation, and the current assumption of how we design and construct buildings. You can double the volume of a flat area by adding a story height worth of flat area. Thrice, if you triple it. The fact is, the world we live in isn't constructed in 3D, but rather 2.5D. In any case, this is not an engineering problem, but a sociopolitical one.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Its an engineering/cost problem. Yes, you can create spansive narrow but long building that go up N stories and have long corridors of apartments with only one wall of windows (and you can go back and front on that). But you need to be able to get the people down in case of fire (and not have them jam), so more stairs, and elevators to handle the amount of traffic. It isn't because people are dumb that they don't do this by default, they run cost benefit and realize building towers works out to about the same economy as building walls, people also want some green, so courtyard complexes are common (towers surrounding a central courtyard, this is a very chinese design). > In any case, this is not an engineering problem, but a sociopolitical one. It turns out they not only have to fund the construction of these buildings, but also sell them when they are completed.
    - kiba 3y ago
      If it's really a fundamental engineering challenge, then reporting on the issue should have reflected that. They do not. It's basically broadly the same problem elsewhere. Hong Kong's challenges are political, not engineering, irrespective of the debate whether to build tall or wide(in my opinion, both).[1] 1. https://www.thinkchina.sg/whats-stopping-hong-kong-fixing-its-housing-crisis https://www.thinkchina.sg/whats-stopping-hong-kong-fixing-it...

by kiba 3y ago

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Apartment buildings in Asia are around 30 stories tall, which is the limit where you can use low skill labor and cheaper materials (going higher requires more skill and cost). Each floor has around 4-5 units, they have to be like that due to window requirements. Even China isn’t going to let you build a fat deep building with many non window units, which are called death traps. I lived in these buildings for 9 years, they are about as dense as you can get until things get very expensive or very dangerous. Kowloon walled city was torn down in the early 90s for good reasons.

kiba 3y ago
That's simply a problem of engineering design and building code regulation, and the current assumption of how we design and construct buildings. You can double the volume of a flat area by adding a story height worth of flat area. Thrice, if you triple it. The fact is, the world we live in isn't constructed in 3D, but rather 2.5D. In any case, this is not an engineering problem, but a sociopolitical one.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Its an engineering/cost problem. Yes, you can create spansive narrow but long building that go up N stories and have long corridors of apartments with only one wall of windows (and you can go back and front on that). But you need to be able to get the people down in case of fire (and not have them jam), so more stairs, and elevators to handle the amount of traffic. It isn't because people are dumb that they don't do this by default, they run cost benefit and realize building towers works out to about the same economy as building walls, people also want some green, so courtyard complexes are common (towers surrounding a central courtyard, this is a very chinese design). > In any case, this is not an engineering problem, but a sociopolitical one. It turns out they not only have to fund the construction of these buildings, but also sell them when they are completed.
  - kiba 3y ago
    If it's really a fundamental engineering challenge, then reporting on the issue should have reflected that. They do not. It's basically broadly the same problem elsewhere. Hong Kong's challenges are political, not engineering, irrespective of the debate whether to build tall or wide(in my opinion, both).[1] 1. https://www.thinkchina.sg/whats-stopping-hong-kong-fixing-its-housing-crisis https://www.thinkchina.sg/whats-stopping-hong-kong-fixing-it...