6 ms·

Somehow the world existed before all these amphetamines. I'm kind of okay with this. It's probably all not necessary and this will show it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kayodelycaon 3y ago
The world also existed before antibiotics... Also, a lot of people with mental health issues can survive without their medication, it can significantly decrease their quality of life or ability to function. I can survive without my ADHD being treated but I can't work. Fortunately for me, I am on a different type of medication so this shortage doesn't affect me, but I can see what's happening to my coworkers. My team is going to lose people due to this bullshit.
- chuckhendo 3y ago
  This right here. I'm prescribed Adderall off-label for excessive daytime sleepiness, and have been for over a decade. I have tried multiple times to come off of it because of my concerns with long term effects (especially with my heart). Can I survive? Absolutely. But without it, I am a zombie; a complete shell of myself. Even with concerns over long term side effects, the tradeoff isn't worth it for me.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  That some "work" requires lifelong consumption of a stimulant with a fragile supply chain maybe reflects a deeper problem than any shortage itself. Why are your coworkers so committed to this work if it suits them so poorly? Are they really unable to perform any work without a drug? It's a little wild that people would sooner see themselves as "ill" and in need of $xx/mo of side effects and shortages for the rest of their lives than think that maybe the expectations they've put on themselves aren't right. Maybe the work is not a good suit for them. Maybe their lives are structured poorly. Maybe your whole industry or social class is broken and is demanding more from people than they can deliver without drugs. A shortage is a really good opportunity to look more closely at those possibilities, especially the last one.
  - piva00 3y ago
    You are conflating ADHD as something strictly affecting work. It does not only affect work, it affects your whole life. You wake up and need to make your bed, but then you also have to take a shower, and brush your teeth, there's also laundry to do, and coffee. Maybe breakfast if you are hungry, but there's also mail to pick up, and emails to read, and plants to water, you also need to schedule a thing after work, and there's also a message from your parents to reply. All of those things are ringing out loud "I need to be done" at the same time, with the same priority, you know you should just start with one thing but you can't, you simply can't, the other things are like loud alarms going in your head to not be forgotten. You feel overwhelmed, you take a shower. One thing done, you make coffee, you drink it and feel you need to go for a walk to clear your head, you come back home and drink a bit more coffee, oh, but I forgot to brush my teeth when I was in the bathroom, and now I know I shouldn't brush right after drinking coffee, you wait a little bit for the sake of your teeth, you forget about it again. You go through your day, you remember you forgot to pick up the mail, you go to pick up the mail, you see your front yard a bit disorganised, you start putting things in place, you go back inside the house and remember you forgot to pick up the mail. You don't make breakfast because many distractions took your time, you start working, you force yourself to focus, you do the work even though other things ring in your head all the time, you finish work and now you're exhausted. You do other day-to-day things, you cook, etc., time for bed, now you remember all the things you forgot to do: you didn't do laundry, you forgot to reply your parents' message, you forgot that you booked an appointment for tomorrow morning. Oh, you also forgot laundry, for the 2nd week in a row, you do it because tomorrow you won't have clothes, so the urgency makes you focus and prioritise it. It's a constant, never-ending stream of remembering, forgetting, overcommitting, self-guilty, no matter what kind of organisation ritual/system you try you eventually fail, each failure feeds back into the guilty, into the shame. And it's constant, every single day of your life, in every single activity you do. In conversations, at work, doing daily chores, everything takes a lot of effort to be focused, to do what you are supposed to do. So maybe life isn't for me, should I just off myself?
  - anon84873628 3y ago
    This sounds like something I would have said before living with someone with ADHD. It would take a long time to explain adequately. But to summarize, neurodivergence can be a pervasive, debilitating problem for people, and medication is in many ways a miracle cure. And the solutions you suggest require the exact type of executive function that sufferers are lacking. Of course it would be nice to wave a wand and change society instead, but that's not going to happen.
_chu1 3y ago
Does Adderall even work?
- nyrikki 3y ago
  "Between 75 percent and 80 percent of children with ADHD will see improved symptoms with the use of stimulants such as Adderall." So yes.
- SteveNuts 3y ago
  (Anecdotally) For me, yes, unequivocally, the answer is a resounding yes. My only regret is waiting until my thirties to get diagnosed, I feel like so much of my potential was wasted academically and career-wise.
  - _chu1 3y ago
    What do I do if I'm 16, diagnosed and unmedicated?
    - SteveNuts 3y ago
      Sounds like you must already have a psychiatrist or MD you've been diagnosed by? What's the reason for not medicating it? Do you have a guidance counselor your can talk to?
      - _chu1 3y ago
        Parents never saw there was an issue. I was mostly "normal" until I started seeing symptoms pop up in the 5th grade. Don't have a guidance counselor but I should probably just ask my dad.
        SteveNuts 3y ago
        My parents were against it too, even though my 5th and 6th grade teachers both suggested it. Then in High school my guidance counselors highly recommended I get tested. There was definitely a stigma for mental illness with the boomer generation, I suspect my mom did not want to be associated with a child that has a mental condition.
xhrpost 3y ago
The world also existed before capitalism and office jobs, when people who were nuerodivergent could still reliably contribute to society and their talents even be beneficial. We now have a system where those who can focus the longest and grind the hardest are the ones rewarded. Anyone else is either mediocre or worse, at risk of being able to provide for themselves because no other method of work is considered nearly as valuable.
- 11101010001100 3y ago
  Here we are taking our adderall and posting on HN. Makes total sense.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  Most well-"rewarded" people I've known are not acclaimed for their focus or for their long hours. Some figures highly esteemed for their talent are noted for extreme focus and diligence, but rarely are these people especially well rewarded with money or comfort. They just get pointed at and receive some "oohs" and "ahhs" while feeling pretty alienated and seeming pretty unbalanced. It's not something most feel themselves aspiring to and it's definitely not what society has set itself up to reward. Society seems to reward people who get about as much done as they say they can, consistently, on something useful, while not being too unpleasant to be around. There's plenty of room for neurodivergent people in that society, even without stimuants.
  - piva00 3y ago
    > Society seems to reward people who get about as much done as they say they can, consistently, on something useful, while not being too unpleasant to be around. You said yourself, consistently. There's nothing consistent about living with ADHD, you simply can't be consistent, it's one of the major issues with it. I believe you are speaking out of ignorance, and that's fine, if you also allow yourself to know you are ignorant and try to understand how it is for others, to grow out of your own ignorance. If you have not lived with ADHD or had a partner with it to understand the many, multifaceted ways it affects someone's life I don't think you can even grasp what it is, it's ok to be ignorant if you are kind enough to acknowledge and try to understand what you do not know about. So far I've only seen your rebuttals coming from the same place as people telling us we should just do better, that is a simple matter of willpower. Or worse, that society does accommodate for it (it doesn't). Society rewards consistency, rewards people with good organisational skills who can persist on a task until its completion, no matter how boring or difficult it is. A neurodivergent person has to develop and practice that, every single day, knowing that in many days you'll fail to do it and all that's left is to try again the next day, and the next, and the next, and the next...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kayodelycaon 3y ago

The world also existed before antibiotics... Also, a lot of people with mental health issues can survive without their medication, it can significantly decrease their quality of life or ability to function. I can survive without my ADHD being treated but I can't work. Fortunately for me, I am on a different type of medication so this shortage doesn't affect me, but I can see what's happening to my coworkers. My team is going to lose people due to this bullshit.

chuckhendo 3y ago
This right here. I'm prescribed Adderall off-label for excessive daytime sleepiness, and have been for over a decade. I have tried multiple times to come off of it because of my concerns with long term effects (especially with my heart). Can I survive? Absolutely. But without it, I am a zombie; a complete shell of myself. Even with concerns over long term side effects, the tradeoff isn't worth it for me.
swatcoder 3y ago
That some "work" requires lifelong consumption of a stimulant with a fragile supply chain maybe reflects a deeper problem than any shortage itself. Why are your coworkers so committed to this work if it suits them so poorly? Are they really unable to perform any work without a drug? It's a little wild that people would sooner see themselves as "ill" and in need of $xx/mo of side effects and shortages for the rest of their lives than think that maybe the expectations they've put on themselves aren't right. Maybe the work is not a good suit for them. Maybe their lives are structured poorly. Maybe your whole industry or social class is broken and is demanding more from people than they can deliver without drugs. A shortage is a really good opportunity to look more closely at those possibilities, especially the last one.
- piva00 3y ago
  You are conflating ADHD as something strictly affecting work. It does not only affect work, it affects your whole life. You wake up and need to make your bed, but then you also have to take a shower, and brush your teeth, there's also laundry to do, and coffee. Maybe breakfast if you are hungry, but there's also mail to pick up, and emails to read, and plants to water, you also need to schedule a thing after work, and there's also a message from your parents to reply. All of those things are ringing out loud "I need to be done" at the same time, with the same priority, you know you should just start with one thing but you can't, you simply can't, the other things are like loud alarms going in your head to not be forgotten. You feel overwhelmed, you take a shower. One thing done, you make coffee, you drink it and feel you need to go for a walk to clear your head, you come back home and drink a bit more coffee, oh, but I forgot to brush my teeth when I was in the bathroom, and now I know I shouldn't brush right after drinking coffee, you wait a little bit for the sake of your teeth, you forget about it again. You go through your day, you remember you forgot to pick up the mail, you go to pick up the mail, you see your front yard a bit disorganised, you start putting things in place, you go back inside the house and remember you forgot to pick up the mail. You don't make breakfast because many distractions took your time, you start working, you force yourself to focus, you do the work even though other things ring in your head all the time, you finish work and now you're exhausted. You do other day-to-day things, you cook, etc., time for bed, now you remember all the things you forgot to do: you didn't do laundry, you forgot to reply your parents' message, you forgot that you booked an appointment for tomorrow morning. Oh, you also forgot laundry, for the 2nd week in a row, you do it because tomorrow you won't have clothes, so the urgency makes you focus and prioritise it. It's a constant, never-ending stream of remembering, forgetting, overcommitting, self-guilty, no matter what kind of organisation ritual/system you try you eventually fail, each failure feeds back into the guilty, into the shame. And it's constant, every single day of your life, in every single activity you do. In conversations, at work, doing daily chores, everything takes a lot of effort to be focused, to do what you are supposed to do. So maybe life isn't for me, should I just off myself?
- anon84873628 3y ago
  This sounds like something I would have said before living with someone with ADHD. It would take a long time to explain adequately. But to summarize, neurodivergence can be a pervasive, debilitating problem for people, and medication is in many ways a miracle cure. And the solutions you suggest require the exact type of executive function that sufferers are lacking. Of course it would be nice to wave a wand and change society instead, but that's not going to happen.

_chu1 3y ago

Does Adderall even work?

nyrikki 3y ago
"Between 75 percent and 80 percent of children with ADHD will see improved symptoms with the use of stimulants such as Adderall." So yes.
SteveNuts 3y ago
(Anecdotally) For me, yes, unequivocally, the answer is a resounding yes. My only regret is waiting until my thirties to get diagnosed, I feel like so much of my potential was wasted academically and career-wise.
- _chu1 3y ago
  What do I do if I'm 16, diagnosed and unmedicated?
  - SteveNuts 3y ago
    Sounds like you must already have a psychiatrist or MD you've been diagnosed by? What's the reason for not medicating it? Do you have a guidance counselor your can talk to?
    - _chu1 3y ago
      Parents never saw there was an issue. I was mostly "normal" until I started seeing symptoms pop up in the 5th grade. Don't have a guidance counselor but I should probably just ask my dad.
      - SteveNuts 3y ago
        My parents were against it too, even though my 5th and 6th grade teachers both suggested it. Then in High school my guidance counselors highly recommended I get tested. There was definitely a stigma for mental illness with the boomer generation, I suspect my mom did not want to be associated with a child that has a mental condition.

xhrpost 3y ago

The world also existed before capitalism and office jobs, when people who were nuerodivergent could still reliably contribute to society and their talents even be beneficial. We now have a system where those who can focus the longest and grind the hardest are the ones rewarded. Anyone else is either mediocre or worse, at risk of being able to provide for themselves because no other method of work is considered nearly as valuable.

11101010001100 3y ago
Here we are taking our adderall and posting on HN. Makes total sense.
swatcoder 3y ago
Most well-"rewarded" people I've known are not acclaimed for their focus or for their long hours. Some figures highly esteemed for their talent are noted for extreme focus and diligence, but rarely are these people especially well rewarded with money or comfort. They just get pointed at and receive some "oohs" and "ahhs" while feeling pretty alienated and seeming pretty unbalanced. It's not something most feel themselves aspiring to and it's definitely not what society has set itself up to reward. Society seems to reward people who get about as much done as they say they can, consistently, on something useful, while not being too unpleasant to be around. There's plenty of room for neurodivergent people in that society, even without stimuants.
- piva00 3y ago
  > Society seems to reward people who get about as much done as they say they can, consistently, on something useful, while not being too unpleasant to be around. You said yourself, consistently. There's nothing consistent about living with ADHD, you simply can't be consistent, it's one of the major issues with it. I believe you are speaking out of ignorance, and that's fine, if you also allow yourself to know you are ignorant and try to understand how it is for others, to grow out of your own ignorance. If you have not lived with ADHD or had a partner with it to understand the many, multifaceted ways it affects someone's life I don't think you can even grasp what it is, it's ok to be ignorant if you are kind enough to acknowledge and try to understand what you do not know about. So far I've only seen your rebuttals coming from the same place as people telling us we should just do better, that is a simple matter of willpower. Or worse, that society does accommodate for it (it doesn't). Society rewards consistency, rewards people with good organisational skills who can persist on a task until its completion, no matter how boring or difficult it is. A neurodivergent person has to develop and practice that, every single day, knowing that in many days you'll fail to do it and all that's left is to try again the next day, and the next, and the next, and the next...