6 ms·

Apple reportedly faces €500M fine from EU

28 points by rippeltippel 3y ago

Kelteseth 3y ago
Please do. We desperately need to show the people that big companies do not stand above the law.
- _8j50 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hardware2win 3y ago
    >It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, Inno what? It is 2024, not 2006, what innovations are you talking about?
    - _8j50 3y ago
      Every product decision is innovation. Being able to configure hardware the way you want without having to comply with government b.s. or design new communication protocols or software systems without the gov dictating how you do that is pro-innovation right? Are you saying people don't make new hardware or software?
      - hardware2win 3y ago
        >Being able to configure hardware the way you want Who is "you" here? Company or People? Because EU stands behind ppl here
        _8j50 3y ago
        Both, people who work with the resources of companies. Individuals can't design and manufacture smartphones. I am not a "companies are people too" person, I am actually heavily pro-regulation but like anything else fairness and justice trumps all. If android and other vendors can't compete because of apple or apple and other vendors collude against people I see your sentiment but I am very much for fairness even for the rich and powerful as well as companies not just people.
  - piva00 3y ago
    > It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple. I mean Apple does not even have a majority market monopoly in Europe. It's also truly a shame to read that enforcement of rules is put under the umbrella of "anti-innovation". As if innovation should be pursued by whatever means necessary, in a weird neo-Machiavellian way of "the ends justify the means". There are rules, a case was brought to be judged based on these rules and the company infringed on them. We shouldn't let innovation trump every other aspect of society, I surely do not want to live in a place where companies can do whatever they want in name of "innovation". Look at how the US turned out, basically being ruled by corporations who defy whatever rule is placed upon them to tame the beast. Rent-seeking on the App Store is not an innovation, it's feudalism, Apple owns the only place possible to submit an application for all non-jailbroken iOS users, with the control of digital land it enforces a 30% rent on subscriptions sold through these apps, what is the innovation here? At the same time they can offer Apple Music without charging themselves a 30% that goes to a competitor. I'm tired of this thought-terminating cliche about innovation, companies shouldn't accrue more power than what they already have, which they gained a lot more since the 80s, and that is already unhealthy to societies.
  - notTooFarGone 3y ago
    Their payment scheme burst with innovation - they should get even more creative in milking every last drop of cash.
  - kobalsky 3y ago
    > especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple from the article: "Apple also prevented Spotify and other companies from informing customers on their phones that they could avoid the commission – and get a better deal – simply by signing up on Spotify’s website." what the justification? that it harms user experience? because "our platform our rules" doesn't trump "our country our rules".
    - _8j50 3y ago
      Private companies can censor information on their platform right? If there is a law complelling speech I agree with you but short of that, you don't expect burgerking to advertise mcdonalds has a better deal in their food right? Or to allow competitors to promote on their real estate?
  - fsflover 3y ago
    >It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418713
    - _8j50 3y ago
      EU doesn't have a silicon valley for these exact reasons. When EU is churning out disruptive tech and paying people in tech what they deserve the tell me how their nonsensical laws and attitudes does not inhibit innovation. The problem now is they are using their position to force their views on multinationals that serve the whole planet. I wonder why europeans are not able to vote with their wallet? Or perhaps it's sneaky politicians distracting you with this stuff so you don't get them to fix the real issues.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    > Name one company that claimed to be above the law? None, they don't claim it, they just act like it.
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    Removing PWA and forcing rest of the users to use gimped Safari is now pro innovation?
    - _8j50 3y ago
      Why not? It's one company's vision. I happen to hate PWAs, why are you forcing my usage of PWAs and USB-c? You have alternatives but I can't have mine? So much for liberty.
      - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        So where I can download Chrome for iOS with full PWA support?
        _8j50 3y ago
        On your android phone since you don't agree with apple's vision for its product.
        TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        Chrome for iOS with full PWA support runs on Android? Since when?
        _8j50 3y ago
        Chrome for android runs on android. Chrome for ios is the same product as for android.
_8j50 3y ago
I knew it! This is what they were after from the start. Milk a US company for that fine cash! And make it look like they were looking out for consumers who have no shortage of options in any product vertical apple operates in. If there weren't much more important global issues happening, why this isn't resulting in a tradewar with EU should be a news headline. I hope Apple realizes that they need to curate inferior products for EU users so they can keep the market. But I gotta say, apple is bending backwards, even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them. The spotify is superior and more popular than apple music, so apple is already losing. If you look hard enough and long enough at someone's activity you will find a reason to fine them. Equal before the law means equal scrutiny as well.
- orwin 3y ago
  What? Do you know how this work? Apple won't pay the full fine (probably 1 to 5%) if they manage to wiggle an apology and permit ALL app editors to put a 'if you pay on our website, without Apple Pay, the cost would be X.YY'. Spotify is just the company who complained and have enough lawyers to understand anticompetitive law, but any ruling on that will benefit all app editors. And frankly, most Apple users will keep paying the 30% tax anyway, it's not enough to loose the convenience. Forbiding truthful, legal speech on your platform is allowed, but not if preventing it is anti-business and anti-competition. I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system?
  - whatisthiseven 3y ago
    "I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system? " This is also ycombinator, and thus hacker culture is an means to be exploited by investors who are looking to grow unicorns. Such investors won't tolerate any restrictions on their path to growth as it threatens their entire value proposition. So, we arrive at the natural conclusion: hackernews is only partially aware of its own narrative dissonance. This is how topics like this one can have hackers rooting for underdogs that will never get a meaningful win out of Apple. While others cheer on Apple and defend its practices as they see themselves temporarily embarrassed founders of the next trillion dollar company and they can't have any roadblocks to that growth. And then there are some unaffiliated with either hacker or founder culture and their opinions on this topic are naturally as varied as anyone else's.
tsylba 3y ago
I wonder how this kind of amount is decided, a percentage of the profit they have earn from the decision perhaps ? what is the metrics ? It seems enormous but it's kind of fair when you profit from a monopoly position in an economical infrastructure. I have no idea how this legal stuff work but it sure does seem fascinating.
wkat4242 3y ago
They still have to pay the 13 billion one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple's_EU_tax_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple's_EU_tax_dispute So not sure what the point is :)
- Novosell 3y ago
  According to that article, they've put the money in escrow and won the first appeal seemingly. This shit can take time.
kovacs_x 3y ago
does this mean I'll be able to create my own App Store app as I like it or there will be 5000 pages agreement how to do this "properly" and such apps simply will not be allowed on Apple store for "not compliance" or it'll be "open season" for all now? Knowing Apple there might be former, not the latter... until 3 years later there will be another verdict.. :D
fsflover 3y ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418386
jokethrowaway 3y ago
I don't like Apple for a lot of reasons but this is just petty, arbitrary stealing from a successful company.

28 points by rippeltippel 3y ago

Kelteseth 3y ago

Please do. We desperately need to show the people that big companies do not stand above the law.

_8j50 3y ago
[flagged]
- hardware2win 3y ago
  >It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, Inno what? It is 2024, not 2006, what innovations are you talking about?
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Every product decision is innovation. Being able to configure hardware the way you want without having to comply with government b.s. or design new communication protocols or software systems without the gov dictating how you do that is pro-innovation right? Are you saying people don't make new hardware or software?
    - hardware2win 3y ago
      >Being able to configure hardware the way you want Who is "you" here? Company or People? Because EU stands behind ppl here
      - _8j50 3y ago
        Both, people who work with the resources of companies. Individuals can't design and manufacture smartphones. I am not a "companies are people too" person, I am actually heavily pro-regulation but like anything else fairness and justice trumps all. If android and other vendors can't compete because of apple or apple and other vendors collude against people I see your sentiment but I am very much for fairness even for the rich and powerful as well as companies not just people.
- piva00 3y ago
  > It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple. I mean Apple does not even have a majority market monopoly in Europe. It's also truly a shame to read that enforcement of rules is put under the umbrella of "anti-innovation". As if innovation should be pursued by whatever means necessary, in a weird neo-Machiavellian way of "the ends justify the means". There are rules, a case was brought to be judged based on these rules and the company infringed on them. We shouldn't let innovation trump every other aspect of society, I surely do not want to live in a place where companies can do whatever they want in name of "innovation". Look at how the US turned out, basically being ruled by corporations who defy whatever rule is placed upon them to tame the beast. Rent-seeking on the App Store is not an innovation, it's feudalism, Apple owns the only place possible to submit an application for all non-jailbroken iOS users, with the control of digital land it enforces a 30% rent on subscriptions sold through these apps, what is the innovation here? At the same time they can offer Apple Music without charging themselves a 30% that goes to a competitor. I'm tired of this thought-terminating cliche about innovation, companies shouldn't accrue more power than what they already have, which they gained a lot more since the 80s, and that is already unhealthy to societies.
- notTooFarGone 3y ago
  Their payment scheme burst with innovation - they should get even more creative in milking every last drop of cash.
- kobalsky 3y ago
  > especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple from the article: "Apple also prevented Spotify and other companies from informing customers on their phones that they could avoid the commission – and get a better deal – simply by signing up on Spotify’s website." what the justification? that it harms user experience? because "our platform our rules" doesn't trump "our country our rules".
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Private companies can censor information on their platform right? If there is a law complelling speech I agree with you but short of that, you don't expect burgerking to advertise mcdonalds has a better deal in their food right? Or to allow competitors to promote on their real estate?
- fsflover 3y ago
  >It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418713
  - _8j50 3y ago
    EU doesn't have a silicon valley for these exact reasons. When EU is churning out disruptive tech and paying people in tech what they deserve the tell me how their nonsensical laws and attitudes does not inhibit innovation. The problem now is they are using their position to force their views on multinationals that serve the whole planet. I wonder why europeans are not able to vote with their wallet? Or perhaps it's sneaky politicians distracting you with this stuff so you don't get them to fix the real issues.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > Name one company that claimed to be above the law? None, they don't claim it, they just act like it.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  Removing PWA and forcing rest of the users to use gimped Safari is now pro innovation?
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Why not? It's one company's vision. I happen to hate PWAs, why are you forcing my usage of PWAs and USB-c? You have alternatives but I can't have mine? So much for liberty.
    - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
      So where I can download Chrome for iOS with full PWA support?
      - _8j50 3y ago
        On your android phone since you don't agree with apple's vision for its product.
        TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        Chrome for iOS with full PWA support runs on Android? Since when?
        _8j50 3y ago
        Chrome for android runs on android. Chrome for ios is the same product as for android.

_8j50 3y ago

I knew it! This is what they were after from the start. Milk a US company for that fine cash! And make it look like they were looking out for consumers who have no shortage of options in any product vertical apple operates in. If there weren't much more important global issues happening, why this isn't resulting in a tradewar with EU should be a news headline. I hope Apple realizes that they need to curate inferior products for EU users so they can keep the market. But I gotta say, apple is bending backwards, even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them. The spotify is superior and more popular than apple music, so apple is already losing. If you look hard enough and long enough at someone's activity you will find a reason to fine them. Equal before the law means equal scrutiny as well.

orwin 3y ago
What? Do you know how this work? Apple won't pay the full fine (probably 1 to 5%) if they manage to wiggle an apology and permit ALL app editors to put a 'if you pay on our website, without Apple Pay, the cost would be X.YY'. Spotify is just the company who complained and have enough lawyers to understand anticompetitive law, but any ruling on that will benefit all app editors. And frankly, most Apple users will keep paying the 30% tax anyway, it's not enough to loose the convenience. Forbiding truthful, legal speech on your platform is allowed, but not if preventing it is anti-business and anti-competition. I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system?
- whatisthiseven 3y ago
  "I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system? " This is also ycombinator, and thus hacker culture is an means to be exploited by investors who are looking to grow unicorns. Such investors won't tolerate any restrictions on their path to growth as it threatens their entire value proposition. So, we arrive at the natural conclusion: hackernews is only partially aware of its own narrative dissonance. This is how topics like this one can have hackers rooting for underdogs that will never get a meaningful win out of Apple. While others cheer on Apple and defend its practices as they see themselves temporarily embarrassed founders of the next trillion dollar company and they can't have any roadblocks to that growth. And then there are some unaffiliated with either hacker or founder culture and their opinions on this topic are naturally as varied as anyone else's.

tsylba 3y ago

I wonder how this kind of amount is decided, a percentage of the profit they have earn from the decision perhaps ? what is the metrics ? It seems enormous but it's kind of fair when you profit from a monopoly position in an economical infrastructure. I have no idea how this legal stuff work but it sure does seem fascinating.

wkat4242 3y ago

They still have to pay the 13 billion one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple's_EU_tax_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple's_EU_tax_dispute So not sure what the point is :)

Novosell 3y ago
According to that article, they've put the money in escrow and won the first appeal seemingly. This shit can take time.

kovacs_x 3y ago

does this mean I'll be able to create my own App Store app as I like it or there will be 5000 pages agreement how to do this "properly" and such apps simply will not be allowed on Apple store for "not compliance" or it'll be "open season" for all now? Knowing Apple there might be former, not the latter... until 3 years later there will be another verdict.. :D

fsflover 3y ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418386

jokethrowaway 3y ago

I don't like Apple for a lot of reasons but this is just petty, arbitrary stealing from a successful company.