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No programmer I know _wants_ to use CSV. It’s often a requirement foisted on them by another team or entity that they just have to work around.

IshKebab 3y ago
Right. And that other team should not use CSV. Adding multiple column headers isn't any more of a solution because it also requires that other team to fix their shit.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  In other words it's a classic multi-agent coordination problem (aka network effects), and saying "why doesn't one side unilaterally start acting differently" is a well answered question by game theory.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  I am commenting on the reasons why most programmers I've met get stuck with CSVs as a data format. I am not commenting on some ill-fated attempt to add types to CSV columns. Edit: removed a "not" in the wrong place.
demondemidi 3y ago
I strongly disagree based on decades of experience scripting in linux and needing to manipulate tabular data. Maybe you just don't know a lot of programmers. CSV is _extremely_ useful, if you know when and how to apply it and don't push it out of it's wheelhouse.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  > Maybe you just don't know a lot of programmers. What a completely odd thing to say on a site like this, but alrighty. Anyway, I'll be clear: I run a business that deals with CSVs and their oddities. I am acutely aware of how well they can work. This has nothing to do with the fact that most programmers I've met, given the choice, would prefer literally any other data format.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    You've just met at least 2 programmers who have no problem with csv. Small specs that don't define very much have a value. Least common denominators have a value. It's a problem to use the basic solution in an enterprise problem, but it's also a problem to use the enterprise solution to trivial problems.
    - Klonoar 3y ago
      You're noting "2" when I just said "most". Doesn't need to be a measuring contest here.
      - Brian_K_White 3y ago
        I'm suggesting maybe you make an assumption about what most programmers you know think about a topic you probably never specifically polled every one of them on, and that whatever numbers went into "most" there are at least 2 to add in the other column. You are expressing your view, I am expressing mine, that is all.

IshKebab 3y ago

Right. And that other team should not use CSV. Adding multiple column headers isn't any more of a solution because it also requires that other team to fix their shit.

anon84873628 3y ago
In other words it's a classic multi-agent coordination problem (aka network effects), and saying "why doesn't one side unilaterally start acting differently" is a well answered question by game theory.
Klonoar 3y ago
I am commenting on the reasons why most programmers I've met get stuck with CSVs as a data format. I am not commenting on some ill-fated attempt to add types to CSV columns. Edit: removed a "not" in the wrong place.

demondemidi 3y ago

I strongly disagree based on decades of experience scripting in linux and needing to manipulate tabular data. Maybe you just don't know a lot of programmers. CSV is _extremely_ useful, if you know when and how to apply it and don't push it out of it's wheelhouse.

Klonoar 3y ago
> Maybe you just don't know a lot of programmers. What a completely odd thing to say on a site like this, but alrighty. Anyway, I'll be clear: I run a business that deals with CSVs and their oddities. I am acutely aware of how well they can work. This has nothing to do with the fact that most programmers I've met, given the choice, would prefer literally any other data format.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  You've just met at least 2 programmers who have no problem with csv. Small specs that don't define very much have a value. Least common denominators have a value. It's a problem to use the basic solution in an enterprise problem, but it's also a problem to use the enterprise solution to trivial problems.
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    You're noting "2" when I just said "most". Doesn't need to be a measuring contest here.
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      I'm suggesting maybe you make an assumption about what most programmers you know think about a topic you probably never specifically polled every one of them on, and that whatever numbers went into "most" there are at least 2 to add in the other column. You are expressing your view, I am expressing mine, that is all.