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I’m not one to be bullish on Tesla under Elon Musk but I don’t see how the Cybertruck was a waste considering that it’s squarely placed in the most popular and

by dangus 3y ago

I’m not one to be bullish on Tesla under Elon Musk but I don’t see how the Cybertruck was a waste considering that it’s squarely placed in the most popular and profitable segment of the automobile market in North America. It’s almost dimensionally identical to the F-150 and the masculine “look at me” cyberpunk appearance is 100% in line with basically everything about the big three automakers’ trucks’ demographics. The only thing BYD can do differently is eat up unprofitable markets like the $20,000 econobox EV.

Draiken 3y ago
BYD will have dominated the world before Tesla does anything at this rate. Here in Brazil, EVs basically didn't exist. Only very few Prius were seen around, and I mean very few. Now, BYD showed up and everywhere you go you see one. Had Tesla been there, the same would have happened. But they chose to not even try (or weren't competent enough to do it). BYD is doing the same in many other countries. Pretty soon I can see BYD being the main provider of EVs in multiple countries. Tesla had years of advantage and totally missed the opportunity to expand into those markets craving EVs.
- themgt 3y ago
  I agree with most of this, but it's worth noting BYD is only 35% of China's auto market. Tesla is #2 at 8%. All the rest are other Chinese companies. People in this thread are focusing a lot of ire at Tesla, but why do none of the other US, European, Japanese or South Korean auto makers make a showing? Why are they all behind not just BYD and Tesla but a bunch of other Chinese companies most people have never heard of? It's easy to blame Elon and his dumb tweets, but China is eating everyone's lunch in EVs, Tesla is notable solely for being in the game and losing while effectively no other auto makers are even in the game. Literally most of the top 10 EV companies in China are doing more EV sales solely in China than the global EV sales of basically any other company on earth except Tesla (VW gets a big asterisk). A truly incredible failure across "the west".
  - Draiken 3y ago
    Definitely agree that it's not just Tesla that failed, but I think the focus on them is because they kind of kick-started most of it. When you're 10 laps ahead and you still manage to lose the lead, you're gonna be the main story. The other auto makers don't want to switch to EVs (despite the typical PR showing around it). They were not ready for it and are many years behind. They are doing this mostly out of panic because after Tesla, it's clear that there is a market and people actually want them. Now governments are also starting to force transitions (although force is doing a lot of work here given the time frames). What surprised me the most is BYD being sold here in Brazil, and other developing countries, when there is basically no charging network. Goes to show how the profile of consumers is different. People in the US still complain about range like they will actually travel from NY to LA, meanwhile people here are buying BYD for the luxury/status/aesthetic of it without even giving a second though about range. My previous prediction was that it would be similar to the US where we'd only have adoption after there was progress in the charging front, but I was thoroughly wrong. People in these countries are more than happy to "sacrifice" in that front for a very expensive good looking car. It's more about the status than anything else since we don't have EV subsidies or anything similar to make it advantageous financially (at least to my knowledge).
  - dangus 3y ago
    I was going to reply by saying something similar: BYD sells 90% of their cars in China. I don’t think their success in China is a guarantee anywhere else, even if they are doing well in Brazil (which is not a very important automotive market, representing 1/10th the sales volume of the USA while having less than half of its population). It’s also important to remember that BYD sells hybrid vehicles. Granted, they ship more pure EVs than Tesla. I think it’s easy to see why EVs suit China well. There’s no range anxiety when you have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined. There’s also no long-existing petrol car culture or infrastructure, China is starting from scratch. Many of their EV buyers could be first-time car buyers. Probably close to 100% of car buyers in the West have owned other cars. From a policy level, oil is an import product for China, and components for EVs are domestic products, so they have an obvious incentive to electrify. This goes back to my feelings on why the CyberTruck wasn’t a waste of effort: again, it’s competing with the most popular vehicle in the USA in the most profitable vehicle segment on the planet that is entirely protected by the US government from imports (the chicken tax). Financially think the CyberTruck is almost guaranteed success.
nullwarp 3y ago
> It’s almost dimensionally identical to the F-150 and the masculine “look at me” cyberpunk appearance is 100% in line with basically everything about the big three automakers’ trucks’ demographics. You clearly are not around any of the big three automakers trucks demos if you really believe this shit was ever going to succeed in it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ToucanLoucan 3y ago
The Cybertruck is a waste because it's an awful truck. The extreme aesthetics are a hard "you must have it" -or- "you wouldn't buy it a million years," with very little middle ground. The carrying capacity is shit. It's off-road and even trail capabilities are also pretty limited. Like I get that it's a trope at this point that most Americans do not buy a truck to use for truck things, but that's quite a different ball game to selling a truck to them that is functionally useless as a truck even in the rare instances you might want one. It's frankly so limited in terms of what Tesla generously calls it's "bed" that it'd be better characterized as an SUV with an open-air cargo area. As bad a truck as a 2024 F-150 is in terms of truck-ness, it is still a truck and will perform a baseline number of truck things more or less competently, even if it would get roundhouse kicked by an 2004 F-150 in terms of doing actual work. Or hell, get yourself a Rivian truck if you want. It has a striking design which doesn't utterly ruin it as a truck and is similarly priced to boot. And, it's worth noting, in the extremely long ramp up for the Cybertruck we're already seeing things like the F-150 Lightning, which incorporates all the benefits of an electric truck, and is sold by an OEM that actually does QA and sells via standard dealerships, and just looks like a normal ass truck while inheriting all the pluses of that fact (the ability to hold a bicycle, for example). Like, unless you are just 100% irrevocably sold on the looks of the Cybertruck, I cannot fathom why you would spend ballpark 30% more on a less-capable vehicle. And if you just want a status symbol, the electric Hummer IMO absolutely demolishes the Cybertruck in terms of aesthetics while also being a vastly superior vehicle and is ALSO coming from a reputable, well established brand. TL;DR: The Cybertruck took so goddamn long to actually become available that it's disappointing launch version is already getting lapped by competitors who are selling comparative machines for lower prices that are more capable and look better, and don't come with the baggage, political and otherwise, that the Tesla brand increasingly brings.
- dangus 3y ago
  Your opinions are totally valid here and I even agree with many of them but some facts that need highlighting: The Cybertruck bed is a full 6 foot bed. It’s got a liner, it’s got tie-downs, it is a real truck bed. It is practically an F-150 clone in packaging and sizing. The Cybertruck took almost exactly 4 years between concept reveal and shipping which is totally reasonable for the auto industry. Just ignore the Peter Molyneux-like promises of Elon Musk and it’s a totally normal car launch timeline. Off-road deficiencies are all over the place with EVs because they’re heavy. No other brand is going to defy physics. Cybertruck competitors in the same price range you can order are the F-150 and the Rivian R1T. The Rivian base model is $10k more and the F-150 base model is stripped down, you get things like manual adjusted seats. But hey, it is cheaper at the same range. The mid-tier Rivian is basically the same price as the Cybertruck mid range. The one deficiency with is at the high end where Rivian offers more range, but that’s also a getting to be a very expensive truck. The Hummer is not even in the same class of vehicle. It’s a 5 foot bed truck. If you’re going to point fingers at electric trucks that aren’t usable work trucks, that’s the one. It’s also starting at $100k. Not in the same price class at all. Putting the feelings about Elon aside I’m just calling it like I see it here: Tesla is competing in a market which is highly lucrative, is very high volume, and they have some legitimate advantages like charging network and software that competitors can’t match. Heck, they’ve even got a reliability advantage over Rivian (Consumer Reports).
tw04 3y ago
>I’m not one to be bullish on Tesla under Elon Musk but I don’t see how the Cybertruck was a waste considering that it’s squarely placed in the most popular and profitable segment of the automobile market in North America. If you think any current truck owner is at all interested in a cybertruck's design, you are definitely one being bullish on Tesla. I've owned trucks nearly my entire life and wouldn't touch the thing with a 30-foot pole. Across the various auto enthusiast forums I participate in, it's universally mocked. Among the folks I know that own pickups, everyone else feels the same about its design as I do. The only people I have heard say that it's not outright ugly are people that are Tesla fanboys and even among those it's generally "it's not that bad". It is not a "masculine look" - it looks like something someone who can't form sheet metal put together in their garage.
foobiekr 3y ago
There is nothing masculine about the cybertruck look. It looks like a nerd idiot thing from California.
- m463 3y ago
  After having seen them on the road, I don't think the look is amazing or terrible. It's just something new that is somewhere between truck-ish and car-ish. There are innovative things to admire about it - interesting steering, non-trucklike-ride, squat to load, covered bed, AC power taps, self-driv^H^H^H^Hsteering/cruise. There are awful things to endure - lack of dedicated controls for critical stuff, everything on touchscreen in center of car. I think it's just going to exist and at some point lose its novelty.
bloopernova 3y ago
I'm about 50% convinced the cyber truck was a billionaire joke to see who would buy it. musk got bored with making cars and decided to amuse himself with a prank. The other 50 is that the CEO has surrounded themselves with yes-men to the point of liability. Nobody dared point out the emperor's lack of clothes.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
BYD now has a traditional pickup truck they've been working on for a year or so ready to launch (they were recently test driving it in Australia) so I guess we'll see whether the standard pickup truck shape with low price due to better batteries will win over crazy cyberpunk looks.

by dangus 3y ago

Draiken 3y ago

BYD will have dominated the world before Tesla does anything at this rate. Here in Brazil, EVs basically didn't exist. Only very few Prius were seen around, and I mean very few. Now, BYD showed up and everywhere you go you see one. Had Tesla been there, the same would have happened. But they chose to not even try (or weren't competent enough to do it). BYD is doing the same in many other countries. Pretty soon I can see BYD being the main provider of EVs in multiple countries. Tesla had years of advantage and totally missed the opportunity to expand into those markets craving EVs.

themgt 3y ago
I agree with most of this, but it's worth noting BYD is only 35% of China's auto market. Tesla is #2 at 8%. All the rest are other Chinese companies. People in this thread are focusing a lot of ire at Tesla, but why do none of the other US, European, Japanese or South Korean auto makers make a showing? Why are they all behind not just BYD and Tesla but a bunch of other Chinese companies most people have never heard of? It's easy to blame Elon and his dumb tweets, but China is eating everyone's lunch in EVs, Tesla is notable solely for being in the game and losing while effectively no other auto makers are even in the game. Literally most of the top 10 EV companies in China are doing more EV sales solely in China than the global EV sales of basically any other company on earth except Tesla (VW gets a big asterisk). A truly incredible failure across "the west".
- Draiken 3y ago
  Definitely agree that it's not just Tesla that failed, but I think the focus on them is because they kind of kick-started most of it. When you're 10 laps ahead and you still manage to lose the lead, you're gonna be the main story. The other auto makers don't want to switch to EVs (despite the typical PR showing around it). They were not ready for it and are many years behind. They are doing this mostly out of panic because after Tesla, it's clear that there is a market and people actually want them. Now governments are also starting to force transitions (although force is doing a lot of work here given the time frames). What surprised me the most is BYD being sold here in Brazil, and other developing countries, when there is basically no charging network. Goes to show how the profile of consumers is different. People in the US still complain about range like they will actually travel from NY to LA, meanwhile people here are buying BYD for the luxury/status/aesthetic of it without even giving a second though about range. My previous prediction was that it would be similar to the US where we'd only have adoption after there was progress in the charging front, but I was thoroughly wrong. People in these countries are more than happy to "sacrifice" in that front for a very expensive good looking car. It's more about the status than anything else since we don't have EV subsidies or anything similar to make it advantageous financially (at least to my knowledge).
- dangus 3y ago
  I was going to reply by saying something similar: BYD sells 90% of their cars in China. I don’t think their success in China is a guarantee anywhere else, even if they are doing well in Brazil (which is not a very important automotive market, representing 1/10th the sales volume of the USA while having less than half of its population). It’s also important to remember that BYD sells hybrid vehicles. Granted, they ship more pure EVs than Tesla. I think it’s easy to see why EVs suit China well. There’s no range anxiety when you have more high speed rail than the rest of the world combined. There’s also no long-existing petrol car culture or infrastructure, China is starting from scratch. Many of their EV buyers could be first-time car buyers. Probably close to 100% of car buyers in the West have owned other cars. From a policy level, oil is an import product for China, and components for EVs are domestic products, so they have an obvious incentive to electrify. This goes back to my feelings on why the CyberTruck wasn’t a waste of effort: again, it’s competing with the most popular vehicle in the USA in the most profitable vehicle segment on the planet that is entirely protected by the US government from imports (the chicken tax). Financially think the CyberTruck is almost guaranteed success.

nullwarp 3y ago

> It’s almost dimensionally identical to the F-150 and the masculine “look at me” cyberpunk appearance is 100% in line with basically everything about the big three automakers’ trucks’ demographics. You clearly are not around any of the big three automakers trucks demos if you really believe this shit was ever going to succeed in it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

The Cybertruck is a waste because it's an awful truck. The extreme aesthetics are a hard "you must have it" -or- "you wouldn't buy it a million years," with very little middle ground. The carrying capacity is shit. It's off-road and even trail capabilities are also pretty limited. Like I get that it's a trope at this point that most Americans do not buy a truck to use for truck things, but that's quite a different ball game to selling a truck to them that is functionally useless as a truck even in the rare instances you might want one. It's frankly so limited in terms of what Tesla generously calls it's "bed" that it'd be better characterized as an SUV with an open-air cargo area. As bad a truck as a 2024 F-150 is in terms of truck-ness, it is still a truck and will perform a baseline number of truck things more or less competently, even if it would get roundhouse kicked by an 2004 F-150 in terms of doing actual work. Or hell, get yourself a Rivian truck if you want. It has a striking design which doesn't utterly ruin it as a truck and is similarly priced to boot. And, it's worth noting, in the extremely long ramp up for the Cybertruck we're already seeing things like the F-150 Lightning, which incorporates all the benefits of an electric truck, and is sold by an OEM that actually does QA and sells via standard dealerships, and just looks like a normal ass truck while inheriting all the pluses of that fact (the ability to hold a bicycle, for example). Like, unless you are just 100% irrevocably sold on the looks of the Cybertruck, I cannot fathom why you would spend ballpark 30% more on a less-capable vehicle. And if you just want a status symbol, the electric Hummer IMO absolutely demolishes the Cybertruck in terms of aesthetics while also being a vastly superior vehicle and is ALSO coming from a reputable, well established brand. TL;DR: The Cybertruck took so goddamn long to actually become available that it's disappointing launch version is already getting lapped by competitors who are selling comparative machines for lower prices that are more capable and look better, and don't come with the baggage, political and otherwise, that the Tesla brand increasingly brings.

dangus 3y ago
Your opinions are totally valid here and I even agree with many of them but some facts that need highlighting: The Cybertruck bed is a full 6 foot bed. It’s got a liner, it’s got tie-downs, it is a real truck bed. It is practically an F-150 clone in packaging and sizing. The Cybertruck took almost exactly 4 years between concept reveal and shipping which is totally reasonable for the auto industry. Just ignore the Peter Molyneux-like promises of Elon Musk and it’s a totally normal car launch timeline. Off-road deficiencies are all over the place with EVs because they’re heavy. No other brand is going to defy physics. Cybertruck competitors in the same price range you can order are the F-150 and the Rivian R1T. The Rivian base model is $10k more and the F-150 base model is stripped down, you get things like manual adjusted seats. But hey, it is cheaper at the same range. The mid-tier Rivian is basically the same price as the Cybertruck mid range. The one deficiency with is at the high end where Rivian offers more range, but that’s also a getting to be a very expensive truck. The Hummer is not even in the same class of vehicle. It’s a 5 foot bed truck. If you’re going to point fingers at electric trucks that aren’t usable work trucks, that’s the one. It’s also starting at $100k. Not in the same price class at all. Putting the feelings about Elon aside I’m just calling it like I see it here: Tesla is competing in a market which is highly lucrative, is very high volume, and they have some legitimate advantages like charging network and software that competitors can’t match. Heck, they’ve even got a reliability advantage over Rivian (Consumer Reports).

tw04 3y ago

>I’m not one to be bullish on Tesla under Elon Musk but I don’t see how the Cybertruck was a waste considering that it’s squarely placed in the most popular and profitable segment of the automobile market in North America. If you think any current truck owner is at all interested in a cybertruck's design, you are definitely one being bullish on Tesla. I've owned trucks nearly my entire life and wouldn't touch the thing with a 30-foot pole. Across the various auto enthusiast forums I participate in, it's universally mocked. Among the folks I know that own pickups, everyone else feels the same about its design as I do. The only people I have heard say that it's not outright ugly are people that are Tesla fanboys and even among those it's generally "it's not that bad". It is not a "masculine look" - it looks like something someone who can't form sheet metal put together in their garage.

foobiekr 3y ago

There is nothing masculine about the cybertruck look. It looks like a nerd idiot thing from California.

m463 3y ago
After having seen them on the road, I don't think the look is amazing or terrible. It's just something new that is somewhere between truck-ish and car-ish. There are innovative things to admire about it - interesting steering, non-trucklike-ride, squat to load, covered bed, AC power taps, self-driv^H^H^H^Hsteering/cruise. There are awful things to endure - lack of dedicated controls for critical stuff, everything on touchscreen in center of car. I think it's just going to exist and at some point lose its novelty.

bloopernova 3y ago

I'm about 50% convinced the cyber truck was a billionaire joke to see who would buy it. musk got bored with making cars and decided to amuse himself with a prank. The other 50 is that the CEO has surrounded themselves with yes-men to the point of liability. Nobody dared point out the emperor's lack of clothes.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

BYD now has a traditional pickup truck they've been working on for a year or so ready to launch (they were recently test driving it in Australia) so I guess we'll see whether the standard pickup truck shape with low price due to better batteries will win over crazy cyberpunk looks.