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Well I thought it was gonna be about the hostile deep-fakes but it's about career threat for creatives. I do wish the robots were doing more mundane or labour

Well I thought it was gonna be about the hostile deep-fakes but it's about career threat for creatives. I do wish the robots were doing more mundane or labour intensive tasks and leave the art to humans.

unsupp0rted 3y ago
What’s the difference. All tasks are mundane and labor intensive, all tasks can be done by artificial beings. We happen to be in a weird little valley right now where some tasks are still impossible for artificial beings to do better than us. This is a very short term aberration. If we are still here in a couple generations, when artificial beings have surpassed our output in every way that matters, then we’ll have a choice to make about what we produce for fun. Not because we’re better at it or because it is profitable, just because we want to. Writing stories, making music, making movies, plumbing, carpentry… the only humans who do these things will be the humans who feel like it.
- bluerooibos 3y ago
  > All tasks are mundane and labor intensive I'd say all tasks when done for money and under pressure (deadlines, people depending on you, etc) become less enjoyable. I enjoy coding in my free time. Doing it for work - not so much.
- starbugs 3y ago
  > artificial beings Last time I checked it was an algorithm that needs to be run and fed with input to perform calculations. Not a being? The only thing that is a "being" about it currently is the nature of the beings that "donated" the training data (without being, hem, asked).
  - throwing_away 3y ago
    So are you, if you abstract enough.
    - starbugs 3y ago
      > So are you, if you abstract enough. Doubt. Explain, for instance, pain. How do you create that algorithmically? Or if you don't like to explain pain, how about love? You see, that's the problem with being caught up in the "technical person" identity completely. Reducing yourself down to an algorithm is not exactly healthy if you ask me. But it sure explains a lot about where the world is headed and why.
      - throwing_away 3y ago
        If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. I'm not going to ask you to lift things heavier than you can, or to do math or programming that's beyond your known capabilities. My goal is going to be to find out what you're best at, then optimize my tasks to be aligned with your training and objectives. This is pretty much what I do with AI also.
        starbugs 3y ago
        > If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. That doesn't explain what pain is. My question was how you would algorithmically create that? If I am as much a being as an algorithm, as you insulted, then sure thing there must be an algorithmic nature underlying my (or anyone's) pain?
        throwing_away 3y ago
        I think you mean insinuated, not insulted (I hope I'm not being insulting). I'm not sure what answer would communicate the idea clearest, but: * If you want the AI version of pain, there are examples of attacks that cause it to bug out and malfunction. It's clearly not operating correctly, and I think someone famously got Bing to say it wants to go on a rampage? Here's blogspam from last year form a quick search: https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/bing-ai-chatbots-destructive-rampage-i-want-to-be-powerful/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/bing-ai-chatbots-destructive-r... * If you want to know why people or animals experience pain, it's because it's an important sensor to exist in nature. AI has been trained to avoid controversial topics and will push back if you try to get it to talk about something it knows but doesn't want to engage with. That's sort of pain? * If you want AI with literal neurons that can feel "pain" in a biological sense, there are also organoids, but I don't know much about them. The world only cares about inputs and outputs.
throwaway49849 3y ago
I know what you mean, but there are plenty of mundane and labor-intensive tasks in art too. Ever try to make background characters or landscapes for a video? It's stuff that nobody pays attention to, but it still has to look plausible. Real artists will use Sora as a tool to automate those tedious tasks, so they can focus on storytelling.
y04nn 3y ago
The fact is that machines have already replaced manual labor, just look at the machines and trucks in a mine, a factory or in agriculture. It already happened, one person work is leveraged to replace a thousand.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  And this has not been a bad thing... Same goes for writing, printing, music on whatever physical or digital medium, films, TV... We have all benefited from mass replication of mediums that before required someone to work for each performance. I don't see why generation of content should be treated any different. And humans might always keep an edge on this. Well crafted coherent product with decent direction often feels better than a bland one. I really wonder how soon AI can replicate the first one.

unsupp0rted 3y ago

What’s the difference. All tasks are mundane and labor intensive, all tasks can be done by artificial beings. We happen to be in a weird little valley right now where some tasks are still impossible for artificial beings to do better than us. This is a very short term aberration. If we are still here in a couple generations, when artificial beings have surpassed our output in every way that matters, then we’ll have a choice to make about what we produce for fun. Not because we’re better at it or because it is profitable, just because we want to. Writing stories, making music, making movies, plumbing, carpentry… the only humans who do these things will be the humans who feel like it.

bluerooibos 3y ago
> All tasks are mundane and labor intensive I'd say all tasks when done for money and under pressure (deadlines, people depending on you, etc) become less enjoyable. I enjoy coding in my free time. Doing it for work - not so much.
starbugs 3y ago
> artificial beings Last time I checked it was an algorithm that needs to be run and fed with input to perform calculations. Not a being? The only thing that is a "being" about it currently is the nature of the beings that "donated" the training data (without being, hem, asked).
- throwing_away 3y ago
  So are you, if you abstract enough.
  - starbugs 3y ago
    > So are you, if you abstract enough. Doubt. Explain, for instance, pain. How do you create that algorithmically? Or if you don't like to explain pain, how about love? You see, that's the problem with being caught up in the "technical person" identity completely. Reducing yourself down to an algorithm is not exactly healthy if you ask me. But it sure explains a lot about where the world is headed and why.
    - throwing_away 3y ago
      If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. I'm not going to ask you to lift things heavier than you can, or to do math or programming that's beyond your known capabilities. My goal is going to be to find out what you're best at, then optimize my tasks to be aligned with your training and objectives. This is pretty much what I do with AI also.
      - starbugs 3y ago
        > If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. That doesn't explain what pain is. My question was how you would algorithmically create that? If I am as much a being as an algorithm, as you insulted, then sure thing there must be an algorithmic nature underlying my (or anyone's) pain?
        throwing_away 3y ago
        I think you mean insinuated, not insulted (I hope I'm not being insulting). I'm not sure what answer would communicate the idea clearest, but: * If you want the AI version of pain, there are examples of attacks that cause it to bug out and malfunction. It's clearly not operating correctly, and I think someone famously got Bing to say it wants to go on a rampage? Here's blogspam from last year form a quick search: https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/bing-ai-chatbots-destructive-rampage-i-want-to-be-powerful/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/bing-ai-chatbots-destructive-r... * If you want to know why people or animals experience pain, it's because it's an important sensor to exist in nature. AI has been trained to avoid controversial topics and will push back if you try to get it to talk about something it knows but doesn't want to engage with. That's sort of pain? * If you want AI with literal neurons that can feel "pain" in a biological sense, there are also organoids, but I don't know much about them. The world only cares about inputs and outputs.

throwaway49849 3y ago

I know what you mean, but there are plenty of mundane and labor-intensive tasks in art too. Ever try to make background characters or landscapes for a video? It's stuff that nobody pays attention to, but it still has to look plausible. Real artists will use Sora as a tool to automate those tedious tasks, so they can focus on storytelling.

y04nn 3y ago

The fact is that machines have already replaced manual labor, just look at the machines and trucks in a mine, a factory or in agriculture. It already happened, one person work is leveraged to replace a thousand.

Ekaros 3y ago
And this has not been a bad thing... Same goes for writing, printing, music on whatever physical or digital medium, films, TV... We have all benefited from mass replication of mediums that before required someone to work for each performance. I don't see why generation of content should be treated any different. And humans might always keep an edge on this. Well crafted coherent product with decent direction often feels better than a bland one. I really wonder how soon AI can replicate the first one.