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>As a rule Chinese students are more attentive and less rebellious than their American counterparts. As an American who's taught both native born American stud
by lr4444lr 3y ago
>As a rule Chinese students are more attentive and less rebellious than their American counterparts.
As an American who's taught both native born American students and recent Chinese immigrants, I confirm this is true, much to the embarrassment of my national pride.
- keybored 3y agoNational pride? One could just frame this as American students teenagers being more independent-minded… and more rebellious (the last part can be both a compliment and not).
- rblatz 3y agoIf you look at the opposite of rebellious as conformist both have negative connotations, and I think in general American culture values at least in theory rebelliousness over conformity, even if in practice there is a strong conformist push from those in charge.
- dmz73 3y agoLooking from outside the US and basing my opinion on news, movies and comments in forums like these, I see there is an enormous conformist push from all levels of society (school, work, religion, military, gangs, culture, politics), much more so than in most other western countries. Granted, that could be just my impression due to prevalence of US culture on the internet and in every day life, and all countries (western and other) might have similar levels of conformist push but it is the US that prides itself on individualism so the level of conformity just stands out more.
- trealira 3y agoWhat makes the US seem so much more conformist to you than other western countries? I didn't think it was more conformist than countries like Spain, France, Germany, etc.
- shermantanktop 3y agoDo you think traveling to the US to get direct personal experience, unfiltered by the media and internet, might give you a different perspective?
- ummonk 3y agoI believe there are studies that show even East Asian origin babies are less active and more docile than white babies.
- HPsquared 3y agoIt could also be a selection thing though, you'd have to compare "typical American students in a typical American school environment" to "typical Chinese students in a typical Chinese school environment". Still probably quite different, but maybe more similar than looking at Chinese emigrés vs typical "US average".
- alephnerd 3y agoI'd second OP's opinion as a 1.5 Gen. Immigrant parents (Asian, Latino, Eastern European, African) in America will push their kids harder because when you're an immigrant, a mistake like getting suspended in school or a DUI can destroy any chance at naturalization because you need to establish "Good Moral Character" [0] which is largely at the discretion of the presiding interviewer and a backlogged USCIS Immigration Judge [0] - https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-9 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter...
- waveBidder 3y agothe original article is talking about native Chinese in China, though the fact that they're attending a school with an english teacher from America is also a strong filter
- alephnerd 3y agoI'm talking about lr4444lr's comment
- watwut 3y agoThe article characterizes them as elite students, so you then need to compare them to elite American students. Elite as in highly performing in school and motivated.
- em500 3y agoTrue, the author is teaching at an elite Beijing high school. But elite American high schools are usually disproportionally populated with Asian (an very often Chinese) students.
- thriftwy 3y agoWhy would you ever expect the opposite, i.e. American students of adventurous, New World colonizing and even Wild West background, to be less rebellous than Chinese students with a family history of 50 generations of tending to a rice field? Not saying either of these options is wrong, and even hinting that the former may perform comparatively better in real life than their test scores suggest. After all, their ancestors survived.
- green_goober 3y agoThis is really reductive to the point of being actually harmful when trying to understand the culture difference. > a family history of 50 generations of tending to a rice field? While yes, I am sure that there are many peasant people who have a "don't rock the boat" mindset, this is totally ignorant to the fact that China in the last two centuries alone was: Invaded by Japan, invaded by every European colonial power, had a communist revolution, underwent massive industrialization, had the cultural revolution (that sort of kills the "docile student" narrative by itself), had multiple civil wars, fought in the Korean and Vietnam wars, fought against Russia, and recently in the last 40 years has opened up to international trade and market economies. Compare the life stories of Donald Trump and Xi Xinping. Which of the two seems more adventurous? I'm not even trying to say one culture is better or worse, I am just trying to point out that your historical synopsis is not accurate and is really oversimplifying things.
- genman 3y agoThe important is not what changes but what remains constant.
- green_goober 3y agoReally? Wouldn't a better argument be that Americans have experienced constant positive social progress and stability, which reinforces the American mindset that "change is good". Whereas China has undergone nearly two centuries of instability, reinforcing the mindset that "stability is more important than pursuit of an ideal"? I still don't even think that this is a super useful model because it is also reductive. But my point is just that you shouldn't paint broad brush strokes with bad history to find a reason for something. It's actually counter-productive. You can find post-hoc rationalization for anything. It doesn't make you right.
- genman 3y agoIt's not a bug, it's a feature.
- genman 3y agoI would argue that methods presented here will make learning very engaging regardless of cultural backgrounds as these learning methods value highly individual effort.
- wolverine876 3y agoI'd be more proud of the rebellious students. The goal is for them to think independently and be independent, free members of society. It's like teenage children - it can be a real headache for parents, but you do you really want your teenagers to be obedient and compliant?
- shermantanktop 3y agoIn some places in the world, the answer is clearly yes. I don’t think filial piety has a gigantic escape clause for when the kid is a teenager. Letting teens run wild for whatever reason (because they will be more interesting adults? because they have a right to?) is a western idea. That’s exactly how I grew up and have a lot of tales to tell, but I also underutilized my capacity for learning during that time.
- wolverine876 3y ago> Letting teens run wild > because they will be more interesting adults? because they have a right to? That's just belittling and avoiding the serious issues. Very teenager-like! :) First, nobody said healthy teens can't study. But it's essential they question and push back against what they study. If they don't learn that, their education has failed on a basic level - that is where all that knowledge came from; that's what will prepare them to be adults who can utilize and produce knowledge themselves, rather than relying on others. What more is the source of SV - or the entire scientific and business enterprises - than those skills. Also, there is far more to learn than schoolwork for growing into fully self-actualized, mature, free people in a free society. Most critically, the most important knowledge is self-knowledge, and that is not learned by studying authorites, but mostly by experimenting and studying yourself. > I also underutilized my capacity for learning during that time None of us know what would happen on the road not taken. You wouldn't be the same person. For one thing, it's not realistic to compare anyone to some image of perfection and then say they could have done better.
- mrangle 3y ago>but you do you really want your teenagers to be obedient and compliant? Yes... what a ridiculous rhetorical question, with all due respect. There is a thread of democratic myth that has been abused into dust that holds that there is high virtue in being disobedient and non-compliant. But the heart of that myth is always centered in somehwat rare (in the context of today) totalitarianism or "dark age" mythological social ignorance. When in reality the key to both learning and life success, translating to happiness, is obedience and compliance with things that are mostly good and mostly true. Whereas predators, of all kinds, often rely on peddling untruths to the reflexively disobedient. There are exceptions, but the lesson is that they are far from the rule.
- nonethewiser 3y agoThe other side of this coin is critical thinking. If you cant rebel you cant resist being fed bullshit. Which we see playing out. Without a doubt American students could be better behaved though.