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Only a Tesla killer if they can beat Tesla in the race to full self-driving. Talking about self-driving - any ideas what's going on with Tesla's FSD V12? They
by ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
Only a Tesla killer if they can beat Tesla in the race to full self-driving.
Talking about self-driving - any ideas what's going on with Tesla's FSD V12?
They published a live stream of Elon Musk driving it, and gave it to exactly one Youtuber, who is now putting up video after video how he drives it.
Both the live stream and the Youtube videos show vastly improved self-driving capabilities.
But if this is real, why don't they push it to customers?
- ein0p 3y agoTesla will not be able to deliver true FSD with its current purely computer vision based stack
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y agoWhy not? How do humans drive if not by vision?
- rvnx 3y agoUsing sound as well
- ein0p 3y agoBecause humans drive using general intelligence - something we can’t replicate anywhere yet, let alone in a power-constrained car.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y agosomething we can’t replicate anywhere yet yet That's why it's a race.
- ein0p 3y agoYou don’t understand. The stack currently deployed in Tesla vehicles _will never be capable_ of anything even remotely resembling AGI. There’s just not enough compute there by several orders of magnitude, even if we knew how to do it, which we don’t.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y agonot enough compute Which type? Storage? Compute speed? How do you know what the lower bound for AGI is?
- IncreasePosts 3y agoRegardless of the issue processing the data to the level that humans can very quickly, is the camera hardware they're putting in Tesla comparable with human eyes? Specifically with dynamic range - seeing in shadowy areas on a sunny day, or not being totally blinded by a headlight at night?
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y agoWe would have to look at the camera footage of crashes and then think about whether a sufficiently intelligent person could have avoided the crash given those visuals. My feeling is that yes, with enough intelligence, even low res cameras are sufficient.
- timeon 3y agoSelf-drive is not about human, is it?
- Veserv 3y agoWell, for one, humans have two eyes in front with the same focal length giving us binocular vision. The people at Tesla apparently think humans only have one eye which is why they keep spewing the nonsensical analogy to human perception. That is just the most glaring error with that analogy. It ignores more subtle issues like how human eyes have higher resolution than 5 megapixels. Human eyes are also much better at contrast, have adaptive focus, are attached to a mobile mount, etc. The only people who would originate a intentionally deceptive argument that humans can drive with vision therefore Tesla's can drive with their camera setup are undeniably con artists trying to sell a lie. The people who are duped into promulgating that lie can be forgiven for being swindled by those con artists, it is why they are called con artists.
- fragmede 3y agocan't we want these things to be better than humans? I can't see at night or through fog. why limit computers to sensors that will be equally bad instead of something better?
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y agoWe have finite resources. Tesla thinks that investing in AI is more effective than investing in lidar and radar. Google thinks that investing in lidar and radar is worth it. We'll see how it turns out. My feeling is that Tesla is right.
- snovv_crash 3y agoThe problem is the world modeling and decision making, not the perception.
- ein0p 3y agoI work in this field and own a Tesla. It routinely sees things in my garage that aren’t there. I would not entrust my life and that of my family to their “FSD”, and I know the science does not exist to fix out of domain errors 100%. It is an outstanding product in all other regards. I just wish they’d stop promising the stuff they obviously can’t deliver
- snovv_crash 3y agoI work in this field too. And I'm not saying the FSD is good. I'm saying cameras are effectively photon counters these days and the leaps forward we've seen in text and image generation from ML, has yet to impact robotics in any meaningful way.
- vehemenz 3y agoTrains are better than self-driving cars. China's electric cars don't need self-driving because they have developed world train infrastructure, while the US doesn't.
- ovi256 3y agoNobody's taking away trains, relax. You'll be able to take them even if others make other transportation choices.
- lmm 3y agoMaking other transportation is one thing. Laws that require places to be ruined to support your transportation choices, like parking minimums and car-first planning, are quite another.
- aurareturn 3y agoChina is developing self driving cars.