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Kremlin runs disinformation campaign to undermine Zelensky, documents show
- ByQuyzzy 3y ago[flagged]
- kossTKR 3y ago[flagged]
- option 3y agoThere is no nuance - russia attacked Ukraine without any provocation murdering hundreds of thousands there. What kind of f#$@ng nuance can there be? Also USA, UK and Russia committed to protect Ukraine's souvernity in exchange for Ukraine giving up third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Ukraine is simply asking for what was promised in exchange for what was already delivered (nuclear disarment) by Ukraine.
- hsuduebc2 3y ago[flagged]
- tjpnz 3y ago>What kind of f#$@ng nuance can there be? I just love how some believe the views of genocidal dictators should be worthy of the same consideration as others. There's no fucking nuance when you've got an invading force indiscriminately butchering civilians, kidnapping children and raping women.
- kossTKR 3y ago[flagged]
- option 3y ago[flagged]
- nikolay 3y ago[flagged]
- consumer451 3y agoThis is useless whataboutism.
- nikolay 3y ago[flagged]
- kibwen 3y agoIs the Washington Post a ruthless dictator sitting on top of enough nuclear weapons to end the world ten times over?
- nikolay 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- torstenvl 3y agoI'm sure that has nothing to do with one of them sending anyone who disagrees to rot in an Arctic prison.
- nikolay 3y agoNavaly had corruption charges.
- ncallaway 3y agoOne does not reflect the other. A low approval rating does not make someone ruthless. A low approval rating does not make someone a dictator. You’re not in the ballpark of making a coherent claim.
- thriftwy 3y agoSince bullshit is so cheap, why wouldn't everybody run a campaign to undermine everybody else they don't like at the same time? State actors sure have money to do this.
- Waterluvian 3y agoYeah they’re called political campaigns. Attack ads have always been a thing with the same goal: exploit the overactive fear response of simple minds.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoViewers are made aware that it's a political attack ad though.
- Waterluvian 3y agoYeah. The difference being the existence of laws. So why don’t others do it the Russian way? Campaign laws.
- XghTk 3y agoIt’s politically risky to blatantly lie and cheat in a democracy, at least theoretically
- voakbasda 3y agoOnly if you get caught. And often times, not even then.
- gumby 3y agoThey are, and have been doing to some degree or other for thousands of years. It really picked up in the late 19th century (e.g. Franco-Prussian war actually started due to shrewd deployment by Prussia of information warfare)
- Nextgrid 3y ago
- bjourne 3y ago[flagged]
- theshrike79 3y agoAlso in the news: water is wet
- UncleOxidant 3y agohttps://archive.is/hLSxA https://archive.is/hLSxA Who finds this surprising? (don't get me wrong, it's good to see reporting on this)
- ajross 3y agoIt's still newsworthy to have evidence, c.f.: > The Kremlin instruction resulted in thousands of social media posts and hundreds of fabricated articles, created by troll farms and circulated in Ukraine and across Europe I mean, would you prefer this not be reported simply because you aren't personally surprised? Where does that logic end? The German invasion of France in 1940 was hardly a surprise either.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoNo, that wasn't my intent at all. I was only pointing out that this is not surprising because this is how Putin has always played the information warfare game. It's definitely good to report on it.
- consumer451 3y agoThe playbook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- benterix 3y ago> The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe.[9] We can only wonder how much influence did Kremlin had over people voting for Brexit.
- 6510 3y agonot at all. They must have people and a budget, they are going to do their job. The result was very close. It would have been cheap and take little effort. They must have people to estimate the obvious. By what weird mechanism would people imagine all of them could not do the job they are hired for with their superiors being fine with it?
- egorfine 3y agoIt would be extremely weird and unsetting if they didn't.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoIt certainly would be weird, but not sure about unsetting.
- thriftwy 3y agoThe absense of such campaign would mean that Kremlin has so low esteem of Zelensky that they think any replacement would be to their detriment. And this is even after taking the collateral damage to the Ukrainian image as a whole into account.
- anter 3y agoVery, very interesting to see all these random accounts immediately showing up in mass to defend the Kremlin. Especially on a post like this, where it is not some outlandish accusation. Those countries are coming up on a third year of a full scale war, it'd be more surprising if they didn't have a disinformation campaign to discredit each other.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoIt's almost too obvious. You'd think they'd try to be a bit more subtle.
- adestefan 3y agoIt seems to work better when it’s not subtle. You’ll get all the *chan bois relaying your disinformation for the lulz. YouTube and podcaster hucksters trying to make a name for themselves to get a payday from some weird billionaire’s self-funded media machine. In the end you’ll get some local politicians on-board and maybe a US Senator or two.
- benterix 3y agoHaving observed them over a decade or so, I came to the conclusion that they don't need to be subtle because to be successful they just need to spread messages (photos, clips, etc.) that are in line with your view. For example, during BLM riots, they were inciting emotions on both sides of the conflict. Subtlety was never their asset because once we get to the bottom of things, they have no real argument. For example, Putin pushes the narrative that Hungarians living in Ukraine would be happy if their land was Hungarian. But if you really ask these Hungarians if they choose a war over their land in order for this to happen, they would call you a madman. There is nothing to discuss and Putin knows it, and also these trolls know it, so they need to resource to not-so subtle arguments.
- UncleOxidant 3y agoYeah, I suppose they get paid the same either way. Why go out of their way trying to be imaginative?
- temptemptemp111 3y ago[dead]
- lakomen 3y ago[flagged]
- feedforward 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- benterix 3y ago> Love all the flagged HN threads I don't particularly like the fact that whenever Russia or China is discussed, you can count on some accounts trying to detract the discussion into the usual "But Murica... (The West, NATO, Israel...) " threads.
- t-3 3y agoYou may not like it, but when discussing these big geopolitical issues, ignoring and silencing the justifications and counterarguments of others is dangerously narrowminded. How can real solutions or constructive discussions be had when only one viewpoint is allowed and even proven facts are verboten if they seem to support an "enemy" statement? How will self-censorship and denial make us better than those we dislike? If we really want to be better than others, we should attempt to live up to our ideals, not hypocritically hide our shortcomings.
- benterix 3y agoOf course you are right, the problem is, these people are not interested in actual discussion and exchanging arguments, only detracting the discussion. For example, when Putin killed Navalny, they try to dig up all possible dirt on Navalny. The point is not to have an actual discussion (which in this case wouldn't matter that much tbh as they guy is dead anyway so his view on immigration don't seem that important anyway) but to paint him in a bad light. Same with Ukraine: they push the view that "The USA is doing the same so it is fine" which is broken on both points (the USA is not doing the same and it is not fine even if they did).
- ProDemoNo 3y ago[flagged]
- CrzyLngPwd 3y ago[flagged]
- 1letterunixname 3y agoI wonder how the troll farms are doing without Prigozhin. Perhaps he was just a Kremlin paycheck collector for various dirty businesses to supply Putin with goods and services.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoHe seemed like a sort of effective director but he was already knee deep in Ukraine with his mercenaries to not be involved in that anymore before his demise
- 1letterunixname 3y agoHis vlog-like videos made it appear that way, but it's hard to say what the dude did or didn't do when the cameras weren't rolling. He did come a long way from being a restauranteur. Unfortunately, he exceeded his station and received a customary Putin retirement {{Buk missile, Polonium, Novichok, starvation in Siberia on false charges}}. He violated the prime directive of the oligarchs' social contract: Never challenge emperor Putin's fame, ego, policies, or profits if you wish to have a long life inside or outside Mother Russia. RIP Navalny
- T-zex 3y agoTroll farms are flourishing on Youtube. Especially this week when lots of bad news from Avdiivka started coming. Most of comments by @user-... are from trolls. They will share similar amounts of likes too.
- bluenomatterwho 3y ago[flagged]
- wiseowise 3y ago[flagged]
- The_Colonel 3y ago> Kissinger Do you mean how he said that for Europe to be safe, Ukraine needs to enter NATO? https://www.economist.com/kissinger-highlights https://www.economist.com/kissinger-highlights
- bluenomatterwho 3y agohttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/19/kyiv-slams-kissinger-over-call-to-negotiate-with-russia-for-peace https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/19/kyiv-slams-kissing... Kissinger was a nebulous figure, no doubt closer to Putin than I will ever be...
- bratbag 3y agoImpossible it could just be reporting on the truth, hu?
- bluenomatterwho 3y agohttps://reees.macmillan.yale.edu/vladimir-pozner-how-united-states-created-vladimir-putin https://reees.macmillan.yale.edu/vladimir-pozner-how-united-... thanks for the downvote and unsubstantial remark ;)
- alkonaut 3y agoWouldn't the "pro war" stance be... checks notes... the pro-russian russian stance, seeing as they invaded a sovereign neighbor with tanks?
- bluenomatterwho 3y ago
- selivanovp 3y ago[flagged]
- older 3y ago[flagged]
- lawn 3y ago> Is there anybody who believes that the West is not doing absolutely the same towards Putin for decades already? It's pretty obvious that the disinformation coming from Russia is on a whole other level.
- omgwtfbyobbq 3y agoIt really needs to be. Russia isn't close to the diplomatic/economic reach of the US, and has to develop other means of influence. The same idea applies to most instances of asymmetrical conflict.
- lawn 3y agoThe disinformation isn't only directed at the west, but it's also on full blast towards their own citizens. And of course with enforced violence. If you refer to the war as a war, and not a "special operation", then you'll get thrown in jail. This is only needed if you're a totalitarian government.
- wiseowise 3y ago> Is there anybody who believes that the West is not doing absolutely the same towards Putin for decades already? Right, everybody knows Putin is actually a fluffy, friendly fella who wants to make friendsis with the Baka West, UwU, or some shit.
- selivanovp 3y agoNo, he's not a fluffy, but the tragedy is that for his first two terms he really tried to become friends with the West. He was called a traitor in Russia when allowed NATO to use our military airports to supply war in Afghanistan.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- secondary_op 3y ago[flagged]
- roamerz 3y ago[flagged]
- consumer451 3y ago> Russia’s Ideology: There Is No Truth > By Peter Pomerantsev > Sadly, this mind-set resonates well in a post-Iraq and post-financial-crisis West increasingly skeptical about its own institutions, where reality-based discourse has already fractured into political partisanship. Conspiracy theories are prevalent on cable networks and radio shows in the United States and among supporters of far-right parties in Europe. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/opinion/russias-ideology-there-is-no-truth.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/opinion/russias-ideology-... note: Please read this article, there is no pay wall.
- vdaea 3y ago[flagged]
- oneshtein 3y agoZelenskyy was comic, like Reagan.
- The_Colonel 3y agoWow, besides being a great war-time leader, Zelensky was also a pretty good comedian.
- _Algernon_ 3y agoIn other news: The sky is blue
- godelski 3y agoWhat's most surprising to me is the comments. They seem to be replying to the title and not the content of the article. I think no one is surprised that Russia is running a disinformation campaign. But this is like how people show you clips of politicians asking stupid questions that are actually just questions so that the information is on the record. What do you want, the Washington Post to __not__ report on the disinformation campaign? Should it better be titled "Kremlin's disinformation campaign to undermine Zelensky?" Or "Document reveals how the Kremlin is undermining Zelensky through disinformation?" I suspect we'd get similar comments. The perverse nature of disinformation and propaganda is that so many think they are immune to it and it is easily recognizable. But if you really think this, this is a mark of the success of propaganda, because you have let your guard down. Just think from a likelihood perspective, and how much your model fits reality. If propaganda was easy to identify then there's two outcomes: you can't explain why it is so effective (your model is broken) or you are particularly unique and special because propaganda is effective but just not on you (i.e. everyone else is dumb, I'm smart). This is the tool at play. We like to feel smart. So sample from people you know, do you think you're sufficiently smarter than enough of them? Are you in a bubble? Or what? The obvious propaganda helps the more subtle propaganda in. It's like how I trained my cat to be terrible at hiding. I just pretend I don't see her when she's in an obvious place and I make it well known and trick her into thinking I wasn't looking for her when she actually is in a good hiding place. It's about the information imbalance and knowing how the other side will interpret the information. At best, if you're just another comment patting yourself on the back, all you've done is create more noise. Which enables propaganda. At worst, you're helping train yourself and others to be like my cat.
- thriftwy 3y agoThe documents (PDFs linked inline in the article) are insightful. I haven't checked the metadata and my PDF viewer reports correctable encoding errors, but the contents look legit: language/jargon gives no reason to suggest these are fake.
- djhn 3y agoIm sorry could you explain this cat training strategy? What is the purpose? How did it come qbout?
- GuB-42 3y agoIt is a war. In which war doesn't one party run disinformation campaigns to undermine the other party? I don't know what kind of disinformation the Ukrainian government spreads against Putin, it is obvious there is too. It is just the nature of warfare. If you look at WW2 for instance, the information warfare is just as interesting as the actual combat, if not more so.
- arctac 3y ago... fake video on Telegram claiming that the main war aim of authorities in Kyiv was “to fight to the last Ukrainian.” Sorry, maybe I'm a victim of Kremlin propaganda but when you are facing someone who is 3-4 times your population, isn't that obvious?
- tim333 3y agoNo. There are other ways it could play out. In an ideal world Russia could admit defeat and go home. More realistically it looks like a bit of a stalemate and they may have a N Korea like ceasefire. Or Trump will get in, give the occupied lands to Russia and a similar cease fire. US estimates of Ukrainian deaths so far are ~80k, or 0.2% of the population so we are a long way off the last Ukrainian. Also the recent Ukrainian strategy of taking out Russia's oil refineries seems quite promising. Eventually Russia may get fed up and do something else https://uk.investing.com/news/economy/factboxrussian-oil-facilities-hit-by-drone-attacks-fires-3339592 https://uk.investing.com/news/economy/factboxrussian-oil-fac... I'm reminded a bit of the fighting between Britain and the IRA. For a long time the IRA said we want this and that and killed people and it didn't achieve much as the Brits said we won't give into terrorism. Then the IRA switched tack and blew out the windows in London's financial district which didn't kill people but was massively expensive and led on to the peace process. It's probably easier to figure a deal when it's about money rather than killing each other.
- rambojohnson 3y agoduh?
- amai 3y agoAnd the WP is happily taking part in this campaign. Pecunia non olet.