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What about at night? Or when it’s cloudy?

by op00to 3y ago

lambda 3y ago
Wind, hydro, and storage. Pumped hydro has already existed for a long time for helping nuclear with load following https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hydroelectric-station https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hyd... and as battery prices fall and production ramps up, even battery based storage is likely to become feasible for grid-scale storage.
- dralley 3y ago
  Pumped hydro is very dependent on geography. Good luck doing pumped hydro in Kansas.
  - lambda 3y ago
    Sure. No solution is one size fits all. This particular solar installation happens to be in Colorado, very close to a lot of area where pumped hydro would be extremely cost effective. Somewhere like Kansas, wind power and battery based storage may be more effective. Here's a map of pumped storage hydro potential; note how dense the potential is throughout most of the Western US. https://maps.nrel.gov/psh https://maps.nrel.gov/psh
    - op00to 3y ago
      Pumped storage requires creating new lakes, destroying existing ecosystems.
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        And creating new ones. Why are the existing ones more valuable?
        dralley 3y ago
        The entire point of pumped hydro is that you're constantly draining and replacing the water. The reservoir is not an ecosystem.
    - 8bitsrule 3y ago
      Another graphic: https://hydrosource.ornl.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/hmr_us_psh_2021_final.png https://hydrosource.ornl.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/hmr...
  - lostapathy 3y ago
    I know "Kansas is flat" is a popular trope, but it's not even that accurate. Depending on how you measure, lots of states are flatter than Kansas. Florida is the flattest state by nearly all measures. Illinois is crazy flat as well.
- op00to 3y ago
  Not every day is a windy day. Battery storage is ridiculously bad for the environment and wasteful. As mentioned, not a lot of hydro storage in Kansas. Plus, when the hydro storage fails and floods a town, that’s still pretty bad.
quickthrower2 3y ago
In my experience of home solar cloudy isn’t necessarily a problem. It doesn’t reduce power much.
- op00to 3y ago
  That’s pretty cool! My experience is playing with dc power and smaller panels off the grid (campingish) and I am foiled by clouds! I can totally see at a large scale clouds may not be quite as impactful as first thought.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    If you need 100% of the power output all the time then that is probably why? Also the grade might be lower for camping but not sure on that. Also this is subtropical usage I am referring to so your watts may vary ;-)

What about at night? Or when it’s cloudy?

by op00to 3y ago

What about at night? Or when it’s cloudy?

Wind, hydro, and storage. Pumped hydro has already existed for a long time for helping nuclear with load following https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hydroelectric-station https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hyd... and as battery prices fall and production ramps up, even battery based storage is likely to become feasible for grid-scale storage.

dralley 3y ago
Pumped hydro is very dependent on geography. Good luck doing pumped hydro in Kansas.
- lambda 3y ago
  Sure. No solution is one size fits all. This particular solar installation happens to be in Colorado, very close to a lot of area where pumped hydro would be extremely cost effective. Somewhere like Kansas, wind power and battery based storage may be more effective. Here's a map of pumped storage hydro potential; note how dense the potential is throughout most of the Western US. https://maps.nrel.gov/psh https://maps.nrel.gov/psh
  - op00to 3y ago
    Pumped storage requires creating new lakes, destroying existing ecosystems.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      And creating new ones. Why are the existing ones more valuable?
      - dralley 3y ago
        The entire point of pumped hydro is that you're constantly draining and replacing the water. The reservoir is not an ecosystem.
  - 8bitsrule 3y ago
    Another graphic: https://hydrosource.ornl.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/hmr_us_psh_2021_final.png https://hydrosource.ornl.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/hmr...
- lostapathy 3y ago
  I know "Kansas is flat" is a popular trope, but it's not even that accurate. Depending on how you measure, lots of states are flatter than Kansas. Florida is the flattest state by nearly all measures. Illinois is crazy flat as well.
op00to 3y ago
Not every day is a windy day. Battery storage is ridiculously bad for the environment and wasteful. As mentioned, not a lot of hydro storage in Kansas. Plus, when the hydro storage fails and floods a town, that’s still pretty bad.

quickthrower2 3y ago

In my experience of home solar cloudy isn’t necessarily a problem. It doesn’t reduce power much.

op00to 3y ago
That’s pretty cool! My experience is playing with dc power and smaller panels off the grid (campingish) and I am foiled by clouds! I can totally see at a large scale clouds may not be quite as impactful as first thought.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  If you need 100% of the power output all the time then that is probably why? Also the grade might be lower for camping but not sure on that. Also this is subtropical usage I am referring to so your watts may vary ;-)