5 ms·

I had always suspected this to be true and also wondered how it’s allowed to spray cardboard with plastic making that also impossible to recycle. I’m willing t

I had always suspected this to be true and also wondered how it’s allowed to spray cardboard with plastic making that also impossible to recycle. I’m willing to bet even glass is still difficult to recycle let alone plastic with hundreds of different types and colours. So now that we know this can we start making changes now? I often wonder what happened to feeding seaweed to cows reduces their greenhouse gas impact from methane… I presume we never actually implement these findings and just carry on boiling ourselves alive.

malfist 3y ago
Glass is awful for recycling. It takes nearly as much energy to recycle as it does to make new. And it's raw materials aren't rare
- smegger001 3y ago
  Glass containers are great for reuse though. For years beer, soda, and milk bottles used to be returned washed and reused. You don't need to melt them down and remold them. Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. Big plastic really wants you to ignore the first two.
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    I love that in Germany it's still fairly normal to get drinks in obviously reused bottles. Very rare most other places these days.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      It has led to massive uptake of single use containers. I believe as of this year the German regime felt it necessary to levy an additional tax on these because the people are rejecting schlepping their containers back and forth.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    Probably uses less energy to toss them and manufacture new ones close to the filling source.
    - smegger001 3y ago
      …sigh… No. Basic physics says otherwise. A commercial bottles washer sterilizes and cleans with water at about 140°F for about 15 minutes. While glass melts (depending on the type) between 2500°F and 3000°F. Then after that the newly formed glass needs to be kept in a annealing oven as it cools slowly from 1000°F to 600°F. the amount of energy needed is several orders of magnitude higher. also this doesn't mention the work needed to grind the glass to be melted, or the cleaning of the glass that still needs to be done so as not to introduce impurities to the glass your making.
      - nemo44x 3y ago
        Right but imagine that millions of people have to transport bottles to thousands of retail locations. Those need to be sorted and picked up and send to many locations to be cleaned, inspected, relabeled and filled. If it were centralized that’s one thing. But every company that makes drinks will need to collect their bottles.
        smegger001 3y ago
        We had that solved by people laying down a deposit with their initial purchase, and would then exchange their empties for full bottles at the point of sale. The same trucks that delivered full beer/soda/ect bottles can return with the empties back to the distribution center and another truck take them back to the bottler on the return trip. Those trucks all have to go back anyway so its not an additional burden.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    >Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. Big plastic really wants you to ignore the first two. I really miss this marketing. It made so much more sense than what is happening today.
XorNot 3y ago
Glass is mostly recycled into fill, not new glass. It's relatively worthless to recycle because it's about as energy intensive to do and sand is cheap.
- adrr 3y ago
  Paper recycling isn't much benefit either. Paper mills are carbon neutral as they power themselves with byproducts(1) of paper production. Add that you're burying carbon when you dump paper in a landfill. Recycle paper isn't carbon neutral. Then factor in the demand of paper leading to more tree farms. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liquor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liquor
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > Add that you're burying carbon when you dump paper in a landfill. Thats essentially recycling then isnt it?
- tzs 3y ago
  What about the sand shortage I've been reading about for several years. E.g. "Sand shortages push up cost of jam jars and fracking" [1]. (2023) "The problem with our dwindling sand reserves" [2]. (2023) "Sand crisis looms as world population surges, U.N. warns" [3]. (2022) "Why the world is running out of sand" [4]. (2019) "The World is Running Out of Sand" [5]. (2017) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/da751338-81a8-45c6-bf2e-acd97980145a https://www.ft.com/content/da751338-81a8-45c6-bf2e-acd979801... [2] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/problem-our-dwindling-sand-reserves https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/problem-our-dwin... [3] https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/sand-crisis-looms-world-population-surges-un-warns-2022-04-26/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/sand-crisis-loo... [4] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is-running-out-of-sand https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is... [5] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/world-facing-global-sand-crisis-180964815/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/world-facing-g...
  - XorNot 3y ago
neRok 3y ago
There was a recent article on the seaweed: [Australian red meat industry says it doesn’t need to meet its self-imposed net zero target](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/australian-red-meat-industry-says-it-doesnt-need-to-meet-its-self-imposed-net-zero-target https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/austr...) > This includes feeding cows seaweed based additives, but one of the longest commercial trials failed to meet hoped-for methane cuts and led to the animals eating less food. ... “The commercial viability of those [food additives] means they are not something likely to be widely adopted by the industry.” So yes, business as usual. Nothing has changed. > A 2022 CSIRO report commissioned by MLA found the industry emitted almost two-thirds the volume of greenhouse gases in 2020 compared with a 2005 baseline. But it said the reported reductions have been driven by a decrease in land clearing and an increase in forest regrowth, as recorded by Australia’s national carbon accounting system. An analysis by the University of Queensland said the NCAS may be grossly under-reporting land clearing rates.
para_parolu 3y ago
I bring my milk bottle to a farm. They wash it, fill with milk and sell again.

malfist 3y ago

Glass is awful for recycling. It takes nearly as much energy to recycle as it does to make new. And it's raw materials aren't rare

smegger001 3y ago
Glass containers are great for reuse though. For years beer, soda, and milk bottles used to be returned washed and reused. You don't need to melt them down and remold them. Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. Big plastic really wants you to ignore the first two.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  I love that in Germany it's still fairly normal to get drinks in obviously reused bottles. Very rare most other places these days.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    It has led to massive uptake of single use containers. I believe as of this year the German regime felt it necessary to levy an additional tax on these because the people are rejecting schlepping their containers back and forth.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Probably uses less energy to toss them and manufacture new ones close to the filling source.
  - smegger001 3y ago
    …sigh… No. Basic physics says otherwise. A commercial bottles washer sterilizes and cleans with water at about 140°F for about 15 minutes. While glass melts (depending on the type) between 2500°F and 3000°F. Then after that the newly formed glass needs to be kept in a annealing oven as it cools slowly from 1000°F to 600°F. the amount of energy needed is several orders of magnitude higher. also this doesn't mention the work needed to grind the glass to be melted, or the cleaning of the glass that still needs to be done so as not to introduce impurities to the glass your making.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      Right but imagine that millions of people have to transport bottles to thousands of retail locations. Those need to be sorted and picked up and send to many locations to be cleaned, inspected, relabeled and filled. If it were centralized that’s one thing. But every company that makes drinks will need to collect their bottles.
      - smegger001 3y ago
        We had that solved by people laying down a deposit with their initial purchase, and would then exchange their empties for full bottles at the point of sale. The same trucks that delivered full beer/soda/ect bottles can return with the empties back to the distribution center and another truck take them back to the bottler on the return trip. Those trucks all have to go back anyway so its not an additional burden.
- al_borland 3y ago
  >Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. Big plastic really wants you to ignore the first two. I really miss this marketing. It made so much more sense than what is happening today.

XorNot 3y ago

Glass is mostly recycled into fill, not new glass. It's relatively worthless to recycle because it's about as energy intensive to do and sand is cheap.

adrr 3y ago
Paper recycling isn't much benefit either. Paper mills are carbon neutral as they power themselves with byproducts(1) of paper production. Add that you're burying carbon when you dump paper in a landfill. Recycle paper isn't carbon neutral. Then factor in the demand of paper leading to more tree farms. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liquor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liquor
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > Add that you're burying carbon when you dump paper in a landfill. Thats essentially recycling then isnt it?
tzs 3y ago
What about the sand shortage I've been reading about for several years. E.g. "Sand shortages push up cost of jam jars and fracking" [1]. (2023) "The problem with our dwindling sand reserves" [2]. (2023) "Sand crisis looms as world population surges, U.N. warns" [3]. (2022) "Why the world is running out of sand" [4]. (2019) "The World is Running Out of Sand" [5]. (2017) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/da751338-81a8-45c6-bf2e-acd97980145a https://www.ft.com/content/da751338-81a8-45c6-bf2e-acd979801... [2] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/problem-our-dwindling-sand-reserves https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/problem-our-dwin... [3] https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/sand-crisis-looms-world-population-surges-un-warns-2022-04-26/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/sand-crisis-loo... [4] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is-running-out-of-sand https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is... [5] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/world-facing-global-sand-crisis-180964815/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/world-facing-g...
- XorNot 3y ago

neRok 3y ago

There was a recent article on the seaweed: [Australian red meat industry says it doesn’t need to meet its self-imposed net zero target](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/australian-red-meat-industry-says-it-doesnt-need-to-meet-its-self-imposed-net-zero-target https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/austr...) > This includes feeding cows seaweed based additives, but one of the longest commercial trials failed to meet hoped-for methane cuts and led to the animals eating less food. ... “The commercial viability of those [food additives] means they are not something likely to be widely adopted by the industry.” So yes, business as usual. Nothing has changed. > A 2022 CSIRO report commissioned by MLA found the industry emitted almost two-thirds the volume of greenhouse gases in 2020 compared with a 2005 baseline. But it said the reported reductions have been driven by a decrease in land clearing and an increase in forest regrowth, as recorded by Australia’s national carbon accounting system. An analysis by the University of Queensland said the NCAS may be grossly under-reporting land clearing rates.

para_parolu 3y ago

I bring my milk bottle to a farm. They wash it, fill with milk and sell again.