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If you're still smoking or at least not putting in a real effort to stop in modern day, you simply don't care for your health at all in the first place. I hate
by Jcampuzano2 3y ago
If you're still smoking or at least not putting in a real effort to stop in modern day, you simply don't care for your health at all in the first place.
I hate the smell of it and how it feels breathing it, every time I walk behind somebody smoking while walking somewhere I literally run in front of them or cross the street. I honestly think public smoking should just be outright banned for being a health hazard against others.
If you still want to smoke, go to small out of the way designated places for it where you aren't bothering others.
- lnxg33k1 3y agoI think you did well saying you cross the street, but then suggested that I solve your problem for you, how entitled, you are annoyed by smoking and I have to go in the cage, I could say, if you are annoyed by people smoking wear a mask or stay at home
- kshahkshah 3y agopersonal freedoms (should) end when they impinge on others health and safety
- lnxg33k1 3y agoI feel like smokers are just there taking shit for everyone, cmon guys you live in cities filled by smog and chemicals and asbestos, but when it comes to smokers “omg the devil”
- metabagel 3y agoI’ve long thought that smokers consider the whole world to be their ashtray.
- bill_joy_fanboy 3y agoQ: Why do you always find cigarette butts littered all over the place? A: Because people who smoke are the same people who litter.
- inglor_cz 3y ago"cmon guys you live in cities filled by smog and chemicals and asbestos" That sounds like rationalization of your own actions. Sure, the environment in cities isn't pristine, but it is a lot better than several decades ago, and multiple bans on noxious substances were needed to clean the air up a bit. When my mother was a kid (1950s), smog was so severe that street lamps had to be lit during the day. Ah, the beauty of burning coal in the middle of a city without any filters. Maybe, if you are a smoker, you are just so used to smoke that you don't realize how disgusting it is for non-smokers. A friend of mine quit and, after a few months, as his sense of smell slowly came back from the dead, sincerely apologized to everyone else for smoking around us. He said that he, as a smoker, just didn't realize how pungent and revolting the smell of tobacco smoke is to others.
- lnxg33k1 3y agoI also quit smoking and started to feel its disgusting, but its my issue, i dont expect the world to change to accomodate my sense of smell, and surely wont say lets put those who annoy me in small delimited areas
- inglor_cz 3y agoOne of the directions in which civilization is slowly developing is cleanliness. Once upon a time, people threw all sorts of garbage in the streets, including rat carcasses and what have you. It was the norm and people complaining about it were considered sissies. In the 1900s, this was already beyond the pale, but "everyone" was fine with black soot from coal-fired furnaces covering everything, and with car engines smelling to high heavens. Nowadays we don't tolerate either, so smokers are starting to be targeted.
- sonicanatidae 3y agoThis is exactly what it is, because smokers are within reach, while the people doing the genuine damage are not. Smoking is not healthy and smokers should be considerate of others when engaging, but let's be real about it.
- itishappy 3y agoI'm upset about smog and asbestos too. They're not exclusive.
- Toorkit 3y agoYou're breathing in car fumes all day, a bit of smoke from 5 meters away isn't much worse.
- pixelpoet 3y agoThe floodgates don't automatically open for every possible unhealthy thing, just because we're already getting exposed to one thing. Isn't this a classic logical fallacy / plain obvious? If you break your leg, is it okay for someone to punch you? I mean, it's way less damage than you've already sustained, right...
- sonicanatidae 3y agoThe fallacy here is one of equating smokers with corporations who pump out 1000s of times more damaging chemicals than smokers do. Smokers should be considerate, that's a given, but you're arguing a false premise with hyperbole.
- lnxg33k1 3y agoI'd read it as if you had your leg broken, but would be complaining and trying to solve an itch on your arm, I understand people want to be healthy, but starting from the least dangerous, if you're exposed to chemicals 24 hrs without doing anything, why do you get so Robespierre when it comes to smokers
- pixelpoet 3y ago> I understand people want to be healthy You're overcomplicating it, it's not about that, it's simply fuck them for flagrantly smoking right in my face. It's literally a physical assault, and entirely "optional" / their choice to not give a fuck about anyone else. There's a huge range of possible things like this people could do to each other which is simply not okay out of basic consideration for others / not being a massive dick. What if I decided I like the smell of some other chemical that's bad for you / proven carcinogen etc, and open this up on a busy train platform. Do I then get to argue technicalities about other unhealthy things too? What if everyone did this? Is this the point we've reached in society, where we want to argue our right to do such things to each other? Purely out of choice, not even some necessity...
- zooi 3y agoThe difference between those two is that, by smoking, you become the aggressor. If being considerate and empathetic is "solving someone else's problem" then I don't see how that's entitled. Don't smoke in public.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- saiya-jin 3y ago> I think you did well saying you cross the street, but then suggested that I solve your problem for you, how entitled, you are annoyed by smoking and I have to go in the cage, I could say, if you are annoyed by people smoking wear a mask or stay at home Cigarette smokers, they never to stop amazing me how arrogant and self-centered many of them are when talking about actual topics. Its btw a great way to find out who you are really dealing with - anybody can produce sweet talk on demand if they have a clear goal. Stub their toe with say some hard addiction of theirs and personalities surface very quickly
- newZWhoDis 3y agoI feel the same way about alcohol, it’s 20+ years behind the stigma curve though.
- Jcampuzano2 3y agoI also don't drink alcohol. Quit about 3 years ago after hearing how bad it also is for your health and just from hating the feeling the next morning. But I agree this one will be a harder one to kick.
- dmoy 3y agoI don't drink a lot of alcohol, but I make batches of kalja at home for daily consumption - probably 0.5% abv because I'm impatient and bad at it. (And I'm, uh, using bread yeast lol) It probably averages out to the equivalent of a beer every week or two.
- officeplant 3y agoMy boss likes to say "wow you must be drinking some strong stuff on the weekends after this job." Because apparently that's the ideal way to cope with abusive workloads. In reality its just sleep, anime, and weed.
- always2slow 3y agoThis is your boss subtly commenting that your weed use is noticeable.
- officeplant 3y agoIt's just old oilfield habits to these guys. He gets confused anytime someone doesn't line up with the old ways. (leading to long racist lunch rants)
- slily 3y agoHe's not far off since you do cope with a depressant drug, just a different one with a different risk profile. And I don't know about you, but it tanks my productivity worse than alcohol all the way through the next day depending on the form. So maybe he's making a comment about that.
- Arn_Thor 3y agoI agree with the first part but I admit I love the smell of it. In small doses and always at some remove.
- droopyEyelids 3y agoThere’s something about the smell of smoke in an Italian restaurant that teleports me back to my childhood in a really good way.
- tyleo 3y agoProbably the addictive substances in it :p
- kazinator 3y agoMaybe, fresh smoke from some cigars and pipes could be nice at some remove, as you say. The persistent smell of the tars that cling to surfaces? Not so much.
- arilotter 3y agocigarette yummy...
- mil22 3y agoEspecially with the widespread availability of vapes, which are still pretty bad for you but substantially less so than cigarettes, there's no excuse these days. I am the same way, I will risk getting hit by cars sometimes just to avoid smoke I hate it so much. Even outdoors after a brief exposure it gets lodged in your hair, clothes, and eyes. With the legalization of marijuana in so many places, the problem has become even worse.
- metabagel 3y agoSome people have had serious lung damage due to vaping. I don’t consider it to be safe.
- bequanna 3y agoPerfect is the enemy of good. Vaping is absolutely not safe, but smoking cigarettes is likely much more damaging to your health.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mil22 3y agoTotally agree, it definitely isn't safe, and it isn't safe for the person vaping or anyone exposed second-hand. However, the evidence so far does suggest the harm is somewhat less than regular tobacco smoke.
- radlad 3y agoKeep in mind we've been using tobacco for over 10,000 years, yet it was only 75 years ago we learned it could cause cancer. In contrast, we've been using vapes for about 20 years - and they've only been widespread for maybe 10.
- JPLeRouzic 3y ago> we've been using tobacco for over 10,000 years From Wikipedia: The practice is believed to have begun as early as 5000–3000 BC in Mesoamerica and South America. Tobacco was introduced to Eurasia in the late 17th century by European colonists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
- ShamelessC 3y ago> every time I walk behind somebody smoking while walking somewhere I literally run in front of them or cross the street Damn that’s fairly passive aggressive. I no longer smoke but you’re aware it’s incredibly addictive?
- dcow 3y agoNo it’s not. Smokers aren't helpless there are plenty of smoke-free ways to put nicotine into your body. It’s even cheaper than smoking.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoProblem is nicotine isn't the only active and addictive substance in tobacco smoke. There are also MAOIs. I've tried every nicotine replacement therapy there is(yes, even vaping). And both approved smoking cessation meds(bupropion and varenicline). And smokefree tobacco like snus, chewing tobacco, even snuff; they all make me throw up. And cold turkey of course. At this point I think I'm more addicted to the harmaline than the actual nicotine.
- Jcampuzano2 3y agoI am aware of it being addictive which is why I also added the caveat of putting in a real effort to stop, understanding that it can be difficult. But I still think even these people should be aware of those around them when they are smoking and how they are affecting them as well. Smoking while in transit on a sidewalk is the example I'm speaking of. Every person you walk past or who walks in your same direction is being affected by you.
- ShamelessC 3y agoThat’s fair. Your original comment just seemed a bit judgmental I guess. I get it though cigarettes are pretty fowl when you aren’t hooked.
- sonicanatidae 3y agoHow about those that are considerate of others and smoke in areas where non-smokers don't go?
- rpmisms 3y agoHey now. I'm a huge nicotine enjoyer, but I'm sitting pretty at maybe 10 cigarettes a year. I care about my health, but the occasional dart is too good to pass up.
- macromagnon 3y agoIf you actually really only smoke 10 cigs a year, which I'd be impressed by, you should get into nice cigars.
- rpmisms 3y agoI started smoking pipes at 15. I would grow and age my own tobacco. I love cigars, but don't like the lack of dosage control. Pipes are my absolute favorite form of tobacco use. Nothing like a little latakia in a nosewarmer while choring in the snow. Cigarettes are tasty, but if I have a couple in a row it hurts my lungs, so I smoke very few of them.
- tech_ken 3y agoCigars are a lot of commitment and make me feel sick, though. Hitting a little under one dart a month after my designated club night is a real sweet spot
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoI have the same problem with cigars as you do and i smoke a lot more than you. I enjoy a good cigarillo though.
- kazinator 3y agoIn Japan, there are signs in places discouraging smoke-walking (arukitabako: 歩きタバコ. Image search that and you can see what the signs look like). People who smoke and walk end up going in the same direction and pace as other people, annoying them. It's easier to avoid a smoker who is staying put.
- rshow 3y agoWhile I love the smell of most cigarettes, I share your sentiments about the smell of weed. Most marijuana smoke elicits a visceral response in me that makes me want to throw up and reminds me of dead skunk roadkill. That said, I put up with it because I respect the freedom of those wishing to enjoy it. I also have no choice, because the smell has become ubiquitous almost everywhere you go.
- Jcampuzano2 3y agoI also do not like the smell of weed, nor do I smoke it. I respect people and their freedom to smoke, whether it be marijuana or cigarretes. I do not respect people who do it around other unconsenting people in areas that are meant to be used by the general public i.e. not in your own home (though even then if you live in apartment/multi-family dwelling it can become a major issue for your neighbors) or a designated spot since there is plenty of research documenting second-hand effects being harmful.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoGive me a break. If you don't wanna experience smells you don't like, stay inside. That's your problem. Occasionally smelling some smoke while outside is not going to significantly affect your health. People smoking in public inside is a whole other level of exposure, and even there the effect isn't that big. If you're really worried about inhaling stuff when outside, worry about something meaningful like diesel cars and aerosolised dust.
- melling 3y agoCalifornia is going after diesel. https://apnews.com/article/california-trucks-epa-greenhouse-gas-emissions-02e279026cf9d9b5c088f9ebdfad3fd9 https://apnews.com/article/california-trucks-epa-greenhouse-...
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoYeah here in Oslo diesel cars were banned and air quality improved dramatically from pretty bad compared to other European cities of similar size, to one of the best in terms of air quality.
- saiya-jin 3y agoOccasionally smelling my poop won't harm you neither, shall we presume based on your words you shall be fine with it in any public occasion? And well if you don't like that you can stay comfy at home too, right. Because you know, to most non-smokers we would prefer smell of literal manure to what smokers of cigarettes produce. And no amount of whataboutism about car fumes is gonna change that, thats a poor attempt to diverge conversation.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoIf you wanna take a dump on the street, be my guest. You'll quickly find out whether your thesis that most people find smoking more disgusting than human faeces is correct.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoSmoking may be self medicating for depression and at least one study suggests smoking lowers the risk of death for people who suffer depression. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37923037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37923037 Some drugs that treat depression have a side effect of causing a lot of people to stop smoking. Maybe someday we will understand depression well enough to effectively and reliably treat it. At least until then, blanket statements about smoking aren't really reasonable. I hate smoking. I have respiratory problems. I don't want people smoking around me. But nicotine is a morally neutral chemical that, like any chemical, can have constructive uses.
- mplewis 3y agoSmoking isn’t nicotine. When we talk about smoking, we’re talking about cigarette smoke.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoI realized that when I said it. It's a comment on a discussion forum, not a phd thesis. Sometimes it's not worth spending ten minutes trying to figure out the scientifically accurate phrasing to make a point knowing no matter how I phrase it, someone on HN will rip it to pieces and nitpick it to death and most people will care enormously about finding minor errors in my comment while largely ignoring the thrust of my main point. Posting on the internet is an exercise in frustration. HN used to be something of an oasis better than that. Not so much these days.
- deemster 3y ago>Smoking may be self medicating for depression and at least one study suggests smoking lowers the risk of death for people who suffer depression That's interesting because nicotine contains MAOI(monoamine oxidase inhibitors) compounds that are used treat depression.
- temp0826 3y agoNicotine itself is not MAO inhibiting, other compounds in tobacco have this effect (which may be synergistic/potentiating the nicotine effects)
- breather 3y ago> you simply don't care for your health at all in the first place. I don't really see an issue with this personally. Moralizing health is weird.
- Cacti 3y agoMost of the moralizing is from hypocrites who just dislike the smell.
- breather 3y agoI think there are perfectly valid reasons to not like cigarette smoke, I just think that constantly harping over the "health" aspect rather than the "resolving the conflict of the smoke itself" aspect is not helpful.
- Jcampuzano2 3y agoTo be honest, I wasn't trying to make it a moral issue by writing that sentence. In my view, people are free to go about doing self-harming activities if they want. I just don't enjoy when they do things that also affect others, like smoking in public around others just going about their day. Where I live regularly people just walk around on public sidewalks smoking making everyone they walk past or in front of breath it in. Or for example smoking at bus stops is another common problem. This is equivalent to actively harming others in my opinion. And as some others have mentioned it may be that there is much more harm done to things like the environment by powers much greater than just those who smoke. So while there are some arguing for that point of view, I do understand those who argue against this one due to there "being much bigger fish to fry"
- breather 3y ago> This is equivalent to actively harming others in my opinion. We unfortunately live in a society that prioritizes freedom to harm others over freedom from being harmed by others.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- VoodooJuJu 3y agoAlthough the health reason for stopping smoking is the best reason, I think the deeper reason that cigarettes are so reviled isn't the small amount of second-hand smoke, that's just the reason people give, but that it's a public display of vice, which isn't acceptable in culturally Puritan areas. Puritans did something similar during their witch trials. They say they're burning someone for being a witch, but nearly all of their victims just so happened to have one of the following characteristics: spinsters with no children, widows who never remarried, single men into their 30s who never mastered a craft or became a clergyman, etc. These were universally unacceptable, impure traits. Puritans were all about the collective rather than the individual, and they believed that the collective had the liberty to shape and bend the individual to its will, else the collective suffers. Non-conformists were made to conform, whether through shunning, shame, or violence, or else they were removed from the collective. So no, you can't smoke in public, not because we care about your health or our health, but because it is decidedly impure, and a good Puritan must be pure, and if a member be not pure, he must be shamed and molded to be so, for if we're not all pure, our moral fabric comes apart. Culture fundamentally changes very slowly over time, although the particulars may transform quite a lot, and this is a great example of that. A very interesting look at how Puritan culture is expressed in the modern day.
- mistermann 3y agoI also often believe non-perfect things I do not like should be banned, regardless of whether the justification for that ban is epistemically sound. But then I think about the law of unintended consequences (or from a more optimistic/fun angle, the perspective of "Optimal Gameplay"), like how the people I am inconveniencing while blindly maximizing my group's fine-grained personal enjoyment may seek revenge (consciously or otherwise) when the time arises where they happen to be the ones who hold power of any sort, such as the decision to comply with public health recommendations, as just one example among many, many thousands. Sometimes my (or others, including those of The Experts) mind counters with attractive, rhetorical stories/memes to counter this approach, but I endeavour to apply critical consideration to those lest I mistake them for shared/primary reality. I have no idea how well I perform at this, but my intuition is that it is better than if I did not try at all, which seems to be the default approach in our culture afaict.