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US safety regulations make it difficult to automakers to add adaptive headlights
- kbos87 3y agoNHTSA instead focuses its resources on forcing a draconian “recall” on Tesla to increase the font size of the brake icon. I know these aren’t one and the same and they should be able to do two things at once, but there are choices being made about where to put resources.
- kj4ips 3y ago> NHTSA instead focuses its resources on forcing a draconian “recall” on Tesla to increase the font size of the brake icon. An update that probably took an engineer less than a day, and CI mere hours to build? The recall terminology is a little silly with an agile-ish developed product, but they really should have done it right the first time. It's not like the standard is hard to read. It probably only bubbled up to the top when someone who has designed these kinds of things in the past noticed it was out of spec, and complained.
- londons_explore 3y agoIt was in every vehicle back to 2012... And was seen by every driver every day. Hard to argue that this rule breaking is a problem when literally millions of people saw the rule breaking on literally billions of occasions before the violation was noticed.
- alphabettsy 3y agoGenerally the way that laws and rules work is that it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been breaking the rule or law, but when you get caught, you have to remedy the problem otherwise what’s the point?
- kbos87 3y agoCompletely fair, but the fact that this “problem” was so ubiquitous for so long should be factored into the decision of whether or not to issue a recall. Recalls aren’t without negative consequences - huge effort and actual cost, opportunity cost of other things regulators could focus on, and the impact to what it means to the term “recall”.
- FireBeyond 3y agoTesla is not a martyr, and what everyone saying things like this are doing is actually arguing for special treatment for Tesla. Lincoln had a recall on my Navigator that resulted in them sending me two pieces of paper and saying "place these pages between page 165 and 166 of your user manual". The pages were related to something entirely benign, related to adjusting the seat for the captain's chairs in the second row.
- dopylitty 3y agoAs far as I can tell the US doesn’t regulate cars at all. How else would these insane monster trucks and dangerous and barely tested “self driving” (into a fire truck) cars be allowed on the road?
- kj4ips 3y agoIn most states, cars themselves don't have many requirements/checks post-sale. Some states check that emissions equipment is still functioning, but because this is often done by third parties, cheating is rampant. Still some states require safety inspections, but that is far in the minority. ADAS systems are mostly legal because they are officially "assistance" systems, and the driver is still responsible for whatever the vehicle does. There is exactly one commercially non-assistance "self driving" system that I am aware of in the world, and it's made by Mercedes Benz, and is only operable in very specific situations. MB takes responsibility for what happens when the vehicle is operating in this mode.
- randcraw 3y agoI've lived in several states with annual safety/emissions inspections (VA, PA). Virginia certainly used to check the aim of headlights (30+ years ago), but probably don't any more. I imagine that the wide range of headlight designs today makes adjustment too complex for most inspectors to do, much less owners.
- lupire 3y agoWhat do you think happens in a non-self driving car wen the driver accelerated into a firetruck?
- mplewis 3y agoThat doesn’t generally happen with human drivers.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoWhitney Houston drove her car into a transit bus.
- teeray 3y agoI would just like for people to get pulled over for the blinding illegal LED headlight conversions
- traverseda 3y agoBut I need to keep up with the new generation of blinding legal headlights.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y agoAt this point they're so common that I think they're not even the conversions, it's just manufacturers putting in lights that are misaimed, too bright, or it's the fact that many pickup trucks have hoods at my standing eye level. At least when I see the underglow LEDs I think "ha that's kinda cute, wonder when he's getting pulled over". Those don't bother me as much.
- saltcured 3y agoYou have to look closely but without blinding yourself! I see three major categories of blinding lights on the roads in California: New cars that are really bright and with appropriate beam shape/cut-offs, but annoying on hills or because of the taller cars you mentioned. New or not-so-old cars where the driver is using the wrong light settings. That is fog lights and/or high-beams in inappropriate conditions or sometimes the opposite: somehow having daytime running LEDs at night instead of proper headlight activation. The aftermarket retrofits which have none of the appropriate beam shape/cut-offs or projection. This can be a bit like the daytime running LEDs above in being diffuse but much brighter and often obviously anachronistic on some older car I know is from the basic halogen sealed-beam era. But it also includes trucks with various "offroad" lights being inappropriately activated on streets.
- MarkusWandel 3y agoActually here's a thing. Our new car, a fairly humble model, nonetheless comes with projector headlights that have a sharp divide between "very bright" and "dark" about halfway up to the rear windows of the car in front. That's if the car is perfectly level. But load it up for a Christmas trip, with the kids in the back seat and the trunk packed full, and it's ever so slightly off level, and over a distance low enough to still blind, will move that light/dark dividing line up to window level. And there's nothing we can do about it. The aim of the lights can't be adjusted. Unintended consequences. On the other hand, why do we have a new car? Because the old one got written off. Why? Because one of those gigantic SUVs whose hood is at about chest level, with way bright headlights was tailgating and blinding the spouse from behind so she pulled over to let it pass. Only to have the driver lose control (it was winter with some ice/snow on the road) and hit her on the rear corner. If it wasn't for those high-mounted, blinding lights none of this would have happened.
- magnetowasright 3y agoLow beams are dangerous? Not really the focus of the article but that's a baffling statement to me. Like, sure, of course more light is better but unless your lights aren't adjusted correctly, they're good? Great, even? I don't feel the need to blast my high beams into people's windows when driving down a lit residential street. That's weird and rude. Does anyone know if these headlight technologies are used in Australia? If it's responsible for people no longer bothering to turn off their high beams when noticing other drivers' headlights shining over a hill or around a corner (and now blinding others) then nah keep that rubbish off the roads. Maybe having warmer temperature lights would lessen the impact of these high beams being blasted into my skull? Old man yells at cloud, and it's me. I would just like my young, astigmatism-free eyes to not be burned so I can actually drive at night again lol. People have been waiting for the FDA (?) to update several regulations around products used in make up for years while other parts of the world are a bit better on keeping up with that stuff. I just think that's interesting, on the topic of regulations.
- thedanbob 3y ago> Low beams are dangerous? Not really the focus of the article but that's a baffling statement to me. Like, sure, of course more light is better but unless your lights aren't adjusted correctly, they're good? Great, even? I don't feel the need to blast my high beams into people's windows when driving down a lit residential street. That's weird and rude. They're definitely dangerous when you're on an unlit county road with deer-inhabited woods on either side.
- stonogo 3y agoNo they're not. Driving faster than your light coverage is what's dangerous. You can drive on low beams all your life if you slow down.
- stubish 3y agoNot quite. Since we are talking about wildlife, you have to remember that the kangaroo does not respect your speed limit and may be approaching at 50km/h. You can avoid the mobs if you can spot them at a distance.
- midasuni 3y agoGood. Adaptive headlights are won’t he U.K. and there are many cases when they don’t work and end up blinding people.
- gifvenut 3y ago> Adaptive headlights are won’t he U.K. Come again?
- thot_experiment 3y ago> bicyclist by the side of the road can still be seen clearly while other drivers sharing the road can see, too. Ahh yes, my absolute favorite thing, when I'm on my bike and drivers turn their highbeams on to see me better, putting me into a situation where I have to stop (which isn't really an option because I have no brakes on my bike) or continue forward on pure faith. Luckily I can cache like 8 seconds of road so it's usually fine, but it does make me want to ban cars even more than normal. While I'm at it, please ban super bright bike lights too, front and rear, they're so antisocial. Very cool that you can see at the expense of everyone around you.
- justinclift 3y ago> I have no brakes on my bike You're riding in an environment where life threatening situations occur... without brakes? Is that as unwise as it sounds, or is the situation not like that?
- isthatafact 3y agoSure it is a silly thing to do, but the important point is that these headlights are intended to be hostile to all people who are not in cars, which makes this a harmful technology. It is already unpleasant enough to be forced to be on or near a road or street at night where low beams are often aimed directly in the eyes of a person walking along a sidewalk.
- justinclift 3y agoNo worries. Wonder if we'll get to the stage where people need to wear sunglasses at night? (like the old song phrase) ;)
- em-bee 3y agowhy do you not have brakes on your bike?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
- alphabettsy 3y agoMy biggest concern is the existing vehicles on the road with illegal bulb conversions, poorly aimed headlights or just inexplicably driving around with the high beams on.
- FireBeyond 3y ago> inexplicably driving around with the high beams on. It's not inexplicable, it's the "fuck you, I got mine", "I'm the most important person on the road". It's the same attitude that people will be in a line of cars and they'll pull out to get two or three cars ahead, or just bully their way ahead, because it's obviously more important that they get where they're going than you do.
- okr 3y agoYaya, its always the other car drivers, that are evil. ;) Here, Headlights are automatic. Imho a matrix LED is at work. And it illuminates wonderfully the surroundings and helped avoiding physical contact with animals, that might have crossed the street. Sometimes, on bumby roads, i get the occasional flashing back to me, or on Autobahn some trucks are bothered by the light. If true or light is only brighter than usual, i can not judge. These things are registered, so i hope they are just brighter than usual.
- FireBeyond 3y agoI have a new Audi that has all that (in the US). It's disabled, but with an OBD tool you can enable it. In about 18 months I've only had someone flash back at me once, maybe twice, so I assume it's doing alright, perhaps.
- ganoushoreilly 3y agoI notice it most in the country headed to our farm. It's great, I just hate having to explain to the audi dealer why It's enabled every service. They get it but I know they'll pull some warranty BS should something happen.
- randcraw 3y agoBased on my strongly negative experience with automatic high beams (2019 Honda Ridgeline), I'm very dubious that smart headlights will hit the intended target, much less continue to do so as the vehicle's hardware ages.
- quickthrowman 3y agoThe auto high beams in my 2019 Toyota RAV4 work flawlessly, they’ll shut off with oncoming traffic or bright enough street lighting.
- gifvenut 3y agoSeems like your sample size of one vehicle is quite small. My experiences have been fantastic.
- rightbyte 3y agoAs a driver or as a potential victim?
- ericpauley 3y agoThough I wouldn’t extend this experience to all smart lights, I’ll agree that Honda’s auto highbeams implementation on my 2018 Civic is a disappointment. I especially hate that it toggles by flashing high beams (a feature I recently figured out how to disable), so even if you turn it off it’ll rear its head when you need to flash someone.
- trilbyglens 3y agoI don't see super great at night and it seems to me like every other car has its high beams on. I don't bother flashing because they either don't know or the cars are just shitty and that how bright the low beams are. Fucking dangerous honestly. In the US, not so much as there are next to zero pedestrians, however I live in Europe, and just last night had to mash the brakes after seeing an old man with walking canes emerge from the glare of an oncoming cars lights right in front of me while doing 70kph on a country road. Shit is fucking dangerous, and I don't think pedestrians realize how invisible they are, even when a driver is paying full attention.
- mdekkers 3y ago> just last night had to mash the brakes after seeing an old man with walking canes emerge from the glare of an oncoming cars lights right in front of me while doing 70kph on a country road. You should always adapt your speed to the prevailing conditions. 70pkh on a country road after dark is fast at the best of times, but combined with “I don’t see great at night” is grounds to reconsider your driving habits. If you had happened to hit that old man with cane, it would have been 100% you at fault both legally and morally, and depending on the outcomes, that’s jail time.
- londons_explore 3y agoThese kinds of regulations need to have an extra clause saying: > Any other design of headlight not meeting the above requirements is allowed, so long as the car manufacturer's vehicles, over the previous year, have been involved in fewer incidents than the national average. Basically, all safety related rules shouldn't apply to you if you can demonstrate your products are safer than the rest of the industry. Same for brakes, airbags, seatbelts, etc. That will push safety innovation far harder than rigid rules would.
- dannyw 3y agoThis is how you get a Boeing.
- londons_explore 3y agoI mean Boeing isn't safer than the competitor, so wouldn't be allowed to use this clause...
- jpeter 3y agoAs a german trust me, the regulations are a good thing. When I drive at night, there are so many cars in oncoming traffic that dazzle you with their led headlights
- rightbyte 3y agoYou these automatic ones are terrible. Fundamentally they tone down after they see your headlights which is too late. Especially when you stick your head over an hill top. I think they should be banned, as a traffic danger.
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 3y agoAlberta is heavily populated with pickups, many decades old (no rust or emissions checks). Their headlights are high up and poorly aimed. The SUVs are newer and better aimed. Another factor is that plastic headlight housings cloud up and over vigorous polishing will change the optics.
- diebeforei485 3y agoThis seems stupid. The better solution would be to adopt the EU's version today and require the improvements in 4-5 years.