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> The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, This seems to be over-generalization? Users are using Apple devices because those are good pro

> The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, This seems to be over-generalization? Users are using Apple devices because those are good products, not because they want to delegate every single trust problem to the Apple ecosystem. That might be a great proposition for people like you, but there is a significant number of people who consider it a compromise rather than a value.

chongli 3y ago
Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. If a 3rd party app causes a data breach it does not matter if the breach was made possible by compliance with regulations like the DMA, Apple will still take the blame.
- summerlight 3y ago
  > Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. As a long time user of Windows which historically had an incomparably large amount of security incidents, I can assure you that Apple won't get blamed that much for 3rd party data breach unless it involves Apple's own service and user data.
  - chongli 3y ago
    Since you’re a commenter on HN I’m going to assume you’re a tech person. I’m not talking about tech people, who through their discussions try to find the correct person/company to blame for issues. I’m talking about the general public. If a story about a data breach in a 3rd party app — affecting iOS users — hits the news cycle, Apple will take the blame and their brand reputation and sales will be impacted. It doesn’t matter whose fault it really is, Apple is the face of the iPhone and through their walled garden they have accepted final responsibility for everything that occurs on iOS.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      I don't see how this matters to the GP's argument. Windows was a virus hotbed for decades and that does not appear to have affected its reputation in a meaningful way.
      - chongli 3y ago
        That’s because Windows’ reputation was already mud. Microsoft made their business on corporate users anyway. Apple is a consumer brand. A data breach on iOS is like nudity in a Disney movie: utterly brand-destroying.
        Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        Windows was both. If you were buying a computer in the early 2000s, it was almost certainly a Windows PC.
        chongli 3y ago
        Right, but Apple built their brand on being the alternative to Windows for people who didn’t want to deal with security issues, viruses, crashes, bundled junkware, etc. You can draw a direct line between Apple’s original marketing pitch (easy to use, simple, secure, appliance-style computing) and the iOS walled garden. Just as you can with Disney and their family-oriented brand. It’s not a compelling argument to say that other film studios have nudity in their films when Disney is the brand at issue.
        zappb 3y ago
        That was because Microsoft abused their monopoly in operating systems at the time to force OEMs to use their OS on all their computers in order to maintain the industry discounts on OEM licensing.
        ffgjgf1 3y ago
        Also because there weren’t really any credible alternatives
  - addicted 3y ago
    What was the last 3rd party breach Apple took the blame for?
    - overstay8930 3y ago
      Fappening. Apple took all of the blame and then we got mandatory MFA. The logjc works even if it’s the own users fault for getting scammed.
  - sunshinerag 3y ago
    I as an Apple user will blame Apple for design choices that lead to 3rd party breaches of my data and privacy.
anon84873628 3y ago
>there is a significant number of people who consider it as a compromise rather than a value. I suspect that from Apple's perspective, it is definitively not a significant number. For Apple, ownership of the "trust problem" is an intrinsic part of "making good products".
- summerlight 3y ago
  > For Apple, ownership of the "trust problem" is an intrinsic part of "making good products". Yes, this might be true. And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement.
  - geodel 3y ago
    > And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement. Well, EU can and will force, fine, or ban US companies as they see fit but there is not some fundamental correctness to their viewpoint
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      Any fundamental correctness of their viewpoint is by virtue of them representing more people (EU citizens) than Apple's CEO represents (himself and, I guess, the Apple corporation, if you count that). On moral issues, the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint (if there is one) is, by definition, the one that more people say is the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint.
      - jdmdmdmdmd 3y ago
        [dead]
      - mckn1ght 3y ago
        What you should be comparing is the percentage of the market the EU represents in the total market available to Apple. EU politicians are accountable to their population. Apple’s CEO is accountable to every Apple customer. The EU does not now, nor has it ever, constituted a majority of Apple revenue.
geodel 3y ago
> Users are using Apple devices because those are good products,.. For general populace good also include secure by default. "every single trust problem to the Apple ecosystem." is rather technical point that very few people would even understand meaning of it. > significant number of people who consider it a compromise How significant compare to iPhone user base?

chongli 3y ago

Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. If a 3rd party app causes a data breach it does not matter if the breach was made possible by compliance with regulations like the DMA, Apple will still take the blame.

summerlight 3y ago
> Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. As a long time user of Windows which historically had an incomparably large amount of security incidents, I can assure you that Apple won't get blamed that much for 3rd party data breach unless it involves Apple's own service and user data.
- chongli 3y ago
  Since you’re a commenter on HN I’m going to assume you’re a tech person. I’m not talking about tech people, who through their discussions try to find the correct person/company to blame for issues. I’m talking about the general public. If a story about a data breach in a 3rd party app — affecting iOS users — hits the news cycle, Apple will take the blame and their brand reputation and sales will be impacted. It doesn’t matter whose fault it really is, Apple is the face of the iPhone and through their walled garden they have accepted final responsibility for everything that occurs on iOS.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    I don't see how this matters to the GP's argument. Windows was a virus hotbed for decades and that does not appear to have affected its reputation in a meaningful way.
    - chongli 3y ago
      That’s because Windows’ reputation was already mud. Microsoft made their business on corporate users anyway. Apple is a consumer brand. A data breach on iOS is like nudity in a Disney movie: utterly brand-destroying.
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        Windows was both. If you were buying a computer in the early 2000s, it was almost certainly a Windows PC.
        chongli 3y ago
        Right, but Apple built their brand on being the alternative to Windows for people who didn’t want to deal with security issues, viruses, crashes, bundled junkware, etc. You can draw a direct line between Apple’s original marketing pitch (easy to use, simple, secure, appliance-style computing) and the iOS walled garden. Just as you can with Disney and their family-oriented brand. It’s not a compelling argument to say that other film studios have nudity in their films when Disney is the brand at issue.
        zappb 3y ago
        That was because Microsoft abused their monopoly in operating systems at the time to force OEMs to use their OS on all their computers in order to maintain the industry discounts on OEM licensing.
        ffgjgf1 3y ago
        Also because there weren’t really any credible alternatives
- addicted 3y ago
  What was the last 3rd party breach Apple took the blame for?
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    Fappening. Apple took all of the blame and then we got mandatory MFA. The logjc works even if it’s the own users fault for getting scammed.
- sunshinerag 3y ago
  I as an Apple user will blame Apple for design choices that lead to 3rd party breaches of my data and privacy.

anon84873628 3y ago

>there is a significant number of people who consider it as a compromise rather than a value. I suspect that from Apple's perspective, it is definitively not a significant number. For Apple, ownership of the "trust problem" is an intrinsic part of "making good products".

summerlight 3y ago
> For Apple, ownership of the "trust problem" is an intrinsic part of "making good products". Yes, this might be true. And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement.
- geodel 3y ago
  > And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement. Well, EU can and will force, fine, or ban US companies as they see fit but there is not some fundamental correctness to their viewpoint
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    Any fundamental correctness of their viewpoint is by virtue of them representing more people (EU citizens) than Apple's CEO represents (himself and, I guess, the Apple corporation, if you count that). On moral issues, the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint (if there is one) is, by definition, the one that more people say is the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint.
    - jdmdmdmdmd 3y ago
      [dead]
    - mckn1ght 3y ago
      What you should be comparing is the percentage of the market the EU represents in the total market available to Apple. EU politicians are accountable to their population. Apple’s CEO is accountable to every Apple customer. The EU does not now, nor has it ever, constituted a majority of Apple revenue.

geodel 3y ago

> Users are using Apple devices because those are good products,.. For general populace good also include secure by default. "every single trust problem to the Apple ecosystem." is rather technical point that very few people would even understand meaning of it. > significant number of people who consider it a compromise How significant compare to iPhone user base?