4 ms·

If you belive minimum wage should allow someone to support a family of 4 then that seems consistent. I personally do not feel that it is reasonable to assume t

If you belive minimum wage should allow someone to support a family of 4 then that seems consistent. I personally do not feel that it is reasonable to assume that minimum wage should support more than the basic needs of an individual. If we raise the minimum to $104k a year, then what do we pay first responders and teachers? Who is going to purchase the $50 mcdonalds big mac's and grande lattes?

0xfaded 3y ago
You can look to Scandinavia to answer this question. Basically labor becomes vested in being part of high value activities. You will order your big mac from a touch screen and pick it up from the window when called. The burger meal will still cost $20, but not $50. You also need the generous unemployment policy with (actual) retraining options. There's a common refrain "who has time to learn how to code?". The person who's union will provide 70% of their salary while pursuing a free education does. But that's done by agreement with the union, if the person would be better off training as a plumber, that will probably happen instead. Basically you need to remove the incentive for clinging onto unproductive jobs for the sake of jobs. It's not a utopia though, don't get me started about the Danish job center which is basically state funded harassment.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I don’t think Danes are making $50/hour at an Aarhus McDonald’s.
  - 0xfaded 3y ago
    It's difficult to do apples to apples. Looks like $22/h with six weeks paid vacation was widely quoted in 2021. After social redistributions your probably in the ballpark of $40/h US equivalent. For what is worth, looks like a big Mac meal is 99kr, ~$15
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      I don’t think you can count social redistributions because they aren’t job related. You can look at the employer payroll tax side and add that up though, both the USA and Denmark have that. $22 is slightly more than what a McDonald’s worker earns here in Seattle, if we are comparing Aarhus (I’ve never visited any other cities in Denmark). And probably no vacation.
      - beaeglebeached 3y ago
        $22 in Seattle would give you plenty of cash for a visit to REI headquarters to buy a real nice ultralight tent and dry down sleeping bag that will fit into a small enough backpack that people might not figure out you're homeless.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Drug addicts are the visible homeless in Seattle, they aren’t going to make rent at any price, let alone hold a job (so why not drift to HCOL cities with more generous social services and less enforcement for shop lifting). Functional unhoused who are either crashing on couches, or sleeping in vans or cars. Most people holding jobs, even at $20/hour, actually have housing. It’s not impossible to get at that wage if you aren’t supporting a family at the same time.
        beaeglebeached 3y ago
        I ended up under a tarp at that wage. Then I worked a rotation on a fishing boat and afterwords hitchiked to Eugene where I could actually rent a room from full time labor.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      The US also has social redistribution for workers in that earning range. Are you double counting?
      - 3y ago
EchoChamberMan 3y ago
Maybe if upper-management gave up some of their massive profit gains instead of raising prices, we wouldn't have such crazy inflation to begin with, and this whole point would be moot.

0xfaded 3y ago

You can look to Scandinavia to answer this question. Basically labor becomes vested in being part of high value activities. You will order your big mac from a touch screen and pick it up from the window when called. The burger meal will still cost $20, but not $50. You also need the generous unemployment policy with (actual) retraining options. There's a common refrain "who has time to learn how to code?". The person who's union will provide 70% of their salary while pursuing a free education does. But that's done by agreement with the union, if the person would be better off training as a plumber, that will probably happen instead. Basically you need to remove the incentive for clinging onto unproductive jobs for the sake of jobs. It's not a utopia though, don't get me started about the Danish job center which is basically state funded harassment.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I don’t think Danes are making $50/hour at an Aarhus McDonald’s.
- 0xfaded 3y ago
  It's difficult to do apples to apples. Looks like $22/h with six weeks paid vacation was widely quoted in 2021. After social redistributions your probably in the ballpark of $40/h US equivalent. For what is worth, looks like a big Mac meal is 99kr, ~$15
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I don’t think you can count social redistributions because they aren’t job related. You can look at the employer payroll tax side and add that up though, both the USA and Denmark have that. $22 is slightly more than what a McDonald’s worker earns here in Seattle, if we are comparing Aarhus (I’ve never visited any other cities in Denmark). And probably no vacation.
    - beaeglebeached 3y ago
      $22 in Seattle would give you plenty of cash for a visit to REI headquarters to buy a real nice ultralight tent and dry down sleeping bag that will fit into a small enough backpack that people might not figure out you're homeless.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Drug addicts are the visible homeless in Seattle, they aren’t going to make rent at any price, let alone hold a job (so why not drift to HCOL cities with more generous social services and less enforcement for shop lifting). Functional unhoused who are either crashing on couches, or sleeping in vans or cars. Most people holding jobs, even at $20/hour, actually have housing. It’s not impossible to get at that wage if you aren’t supporting a family at the same time.
        beaeglebeached 3y ago
        I ended up under a tarp at that wage. Then I worked a rotation on a fishing boat and afterwords hitchiked to Eugene where I could actually rent a room from full time labor.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    The US also has social redistribution for workers in that earning range. Are you double counting?
    - 3y ago

EchoChamberMan 3y ago

Maybe if upper-management gave up some of their massive profit gains instead of raising prices, we wouldn't have such crazy inflation to begin with, and this whole point would be moot.