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> We don’t yet know exactly why a group of people very publicly graffitied, smashed, and torched a Waymo car in San Francisco Having been to San Francisco late

> We don’t yet know exactly why a group of people very publicly graffitied, smashed, and torched a Waymo car in San Francisco Having been to San Francisco lately, I would not be surprised to see all cars and houses smashed and burned. The city is basically that CHAZ thing in Seattle.

refulgentis 3y ago
I, for one, would be surprised to arrive in SF and find all cars and houses smashed and burned.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  It happens. One German burned 47 cars all by himself in Hollywood https://laist.com/news/serial-hollywood-arsonist-convicted https://laist.com/news/serial-hollywood-arsonist-convicted
iamdelirium 3y ago
No it isn't? I live in SF and it is not a war zone or anything resembling anarchy.
ajross 3y ago
You're reciting a meme, informed by a moderate crime wave in and slightly after the pandemic, and amplified by partisan media and echo chambers like the one here on HN. In fact SF crime rates in virtually all categories are at 12+ year lows: https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rate-and-property-crime-rate https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rat...
- scarmig 3y ago
  Data point: after being physically attacked in the street by a (presumably) homeless man, the SF cops refused to take my report unless I went down to the station. I'd regard these statistics as, very generously, aspirational.
  - ajross 3y ago
    The point is obviously that crime has dropped sharply over the past two years, not that it doesn't exist. Were they taking reports over the phone in 2021, before the recent sharp drop? (Also: I guess I don't understand your demand here? A police report is testimony. The officer needs to verify your identity, record what you said, and do so in a standard and traceable way. It's not like "there's an app for that", if you want to deal with law enforcement you have to do it in person.)
    - scarmig 3y ago
      "The user is wrong" is not a way to justify bad statistics. Saying a violent assault doesn't count as a violent assault unless the victim is willing to spend god knows how many hours going through bureaucracy purely for the sake of bureaucracy (no one would be investigated or punished, regardless) is off-base. It makes sense to have a reasonable set of barriers if you're talking about making sure evidence would stand up in trial. That same set of barriers, however, makes the statistics understate the true crime level. "The officer needs to verify your identity, record what you said, and do so in a standard and traceable way" makes sense for trial, but at the same time it would cause an understatement in crime. Particularly for marginalized groups (of which I'm not part, at least for the sake of this discussion) e.g. undocumented immigrants, rape victims, people who don't have time to go through the process because they have to spend every waking hour trying to survive. I have no opinion on whether underreporting is higher or lower than it was five years ago. It's genuinely impossible to say, without a secondary, more reliable measure (beyond anecdotes). Someone stole my laundry in 2015, and SFPD also weren't interested in me reporting that.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  stepping over a middle aged woman in broad daylight with a needle and blood, blocking the sidewalk in the TenderKnob. Hostile and sketchy people in every direction. yeah, thats not fake SF
- knorker 3y ago
  As I said, I draw this impression from personal experience recently being in SF. Saying this is "reciting a meme" and "partisan media" is disingenuous. SF is a hellhole. I've visited many times over the last decade, and it's getting worse and worse. And it wasn't good in 2010 either. Wandering into stores I couldn't even buy stuff, without getting an employee to unlock just about any shelf. As for crime being down: there are many people saying they've stopped reporting crimes. Hell, "shoplifting" is completely ignored. I want SF to be good. I don't trust Fox&friends further than I can throw them. But I have eyes (and more importantly a nose), so don't you deny what's plainly visible.
sapphicsnail 3y ago
If you think SF is like the CHAZ I can't imagine what you would think Oakland is.

refulgentis 3y ago

I, for one, would be surprised to arrive in SF and find all cars and houses smashed and burned.

PaulHoule 3y ago
It happens. One German burned 47 cars all by himself in Hollywood https://laist.com/news/serial-hollywood-arsonist-convicted https://laist.com/news/serial-hollywood-arsonist-convicted

iamdelirium 3y ago

No it isn't? I live in SF and it is not a war zone or anything resembling anarchy.

ajross 3y ago

You're reciting a meme, informed by a moderate crime wave in and slightly after the pandemic, and amplified by partisan media and echo chambers like the one here on HN. In fact SF crime rates in virtually all categories are at 12+ year lows: https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rate-and-property-crime-rate https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rat...

scarmig 3y ago
Data point: after being physically attacked in the street by a (presumably) homeless man, the SF cops refused to take my report unless I went down to the station. I'd regard these statistics as, very generously, aspirational.
- ajross 3y ago
  The point is obviously that crime has dropped sharply over the past two years, not that it doesn't exist. Were they taking reports over the phone in 2021, before the recent sharp drop? (Also: I guess I don't understand your demand here? A police report is testimony. The officer needs to verify your identity, record what you said, and do so in a standard and traceable way. It's not like "there's an app for that", if you want to deal with law enforcement you have to do it in person.)
  - scarmig 3y ago
    "The user is wrong" is not a way to justify bad statistics. Saying a violent assault doesn't count as a violent assault unless the victim is willing to spend god knows how many hours going through bureaucracy purely for the sake of bureaucracy (no one would be investigated or punished, regardless) is off-base. It makes sense to have a reasonable set of barriers if you're talking about making sure evidence would stand up in trial. That same set of barriers, however, makes the statistics understate the true crime level. "The officer needs to verify your identity, record what you said, and do so in a standard and traceable way" makes sense for trial, but at the same time it would cause an understatement in crime. Particularly for marginalized groups (of which I'm not part, at least for the sake of this discussion) e.g. undocumented immigrants, rape victims, people who don't have time to go through the process because they have to spend every waking hour trying to survive. I have no opinion on whether underreporting is higher or lower than it was five years ago. It's genuinely impossible to say, without a secondary, more reliable measure (beyond anecdotes). Someone stole my laundry in 2015, and SFPD also weren't interested in me reporting that.
mistrial9 3y ago
stepping over a middle aged woman in broad daylight with a needle and blood, blocking the sidewalk in the TenderKnob. Hostile and sketchy people in every direction. yeah, thats not fake SF
knorker 3y ago
As I said, I draw this impression from personal experience recently being in SF. Saying this is "reciting a meme" and "partisan media" is disingenuous. SF is a hellhole. I've visited many times over the last decade, and it's getting worse and worse. And it wasn't good in 2010 either. Wandering into stores I couldn't even buy stuff, without getting an employee to unlock just about any shelf. As for crime being down: there are many people saying they've stopped reporting crimes. Hell, "shoplifting" is completely ignored. I want SF to be good. I don't trust Fox&friends further than I can throw them. But I have eyes (and more importantly a nose), so don't you deny what's plainly visible.

sapphicsnail 3y ago

If you think SF is like the CHAZ I can't imagine what you would think Oakland is.