4 ms·

> Leases are often indefinite I've seen leases in the UK for 999 years. Not rentals though - leaseholds. This is a very odd feature of UK housing. You pretty

> Leases are often indefinite I've seen leases in the UK for 999 years. Not rentals though - leaseholds. This is a very odd feature of UK housing. You pretty much go through all the steps of buying a property but in the end all you bought was the right to live in the place until the lease runs out. It also leads to some oddities, like this [0] very cheap flat a stone's throw away from Regent's Park. It's this price because there are less than 10 years left in the lease and I imagine the current tenants/"owners" couldn't renew it. This could happen for many reasons, e.g. the "actual owner" or freeholder wants to raise the lease value too much, or the freeholder couldn't be found. In the latter case I'm not sure what happens, but I imagine it's possible that no one will ever claim the property - and I have no idea in what legal standing this leaves the property. This is the most common form of "ownership" of flats and apartments. Houses are generally "freeholds", which means you actually own the property. [0] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/142789514 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/142789514

robocat 3y ago
> or the freeholder couldn't be found When does squatting rights become in play? What happens if a leaseholder doesn't move out? Do freeholders have extra rights to kick people off property beyond what landlords do?
pimterry 3y ago
This is currently part of a big political debate, and _might_ change, although the current government have dodged it so far: - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67569517 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67569517 - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/leasehold-reform-in-england-and-wales/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/leasehold-reform-in-eng... - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/labour-promises-rapid-housing-action-after-years-of-tory-paper-promises https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/labour-promi... Much of the rest of Europe & elsewhere heavily uses a commonhold model (https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonhold/ https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonhold/) where all owners of flats in a block collectively own the shared structure of the block itself, and share responsibility for maintaining that as required, with a communal budget and democratic voting on decisions.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  I'm aware of the debate. Do you have any idea what will happen to the people currently on leaseholds if this goes forward? I imagine they're either not going to be affected at all (i.e. stay on leasehold until the lease runs out), at which point either: - It gets converted to a commonhold (potentially necessitating some form of compensation to the current freeholder); or - It stays in the same regime. In the former case, there's the chance that existing leaseholders will be priced out of their residence if they're unable to acquire their share of the commonhold. In the latter, their property value will likely plunge as it's less attractive than the new ones. Of course, the alternative to this is that commonholds are priced up accordingly but that will probably make them inaccessible to most people and perhaps even more expensive than freehold houses.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
In China, you only buy leases, some as short as 30-40 years, but most around 90 years.

robocat 3y ago

> or the freeholder couldn't be found When does squatting rights become in play? What happens if a leaseholder doesn't move out? Do freeholders have extra rights to kick people off property beyond what landlords do?

pimterry 3y ago

This is currently part of a big political debate, and _might_ change, although the current government have dodged it so far: - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67569517 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67569517 - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/leasehold-reform-in-england-and-wales/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/leasehold-reform-in-eng... - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/labour-promises-rapid-housing-action-after-years-of-tory-paper-promises https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/labour-promi... Much of the rest of Europe & elsewhere heavily uses a commonhold model (https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonhold/ https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonhold/) where all owners of flats in a block collectively own the shared structure of the block itself, and share responsibility for maintaining that as required, with a communal budget and democratic voting on decisions.

cassianoleal 3y ago
I'm aware of the debate. Do you have any idea what will happen to the people currently on leaseholds if this goes forward? I imagine they're either not going to be affected at all (i.e. stay on leasehold until the lease runs out), at which point either: - It gets converted to a commonhold (potentially necessitating some form of compensation to the current freeholder); or - It stays in the same regime. In the former case, there's the chance that existing leaseholders will be priced out of their residence if they're unable to acquire their share of the commonhold. In the latter, their property value will likely plunge as it's less attractive than the new ones. Of course, the alternative to this is that commonholds are priced up accordingly but that will probably make them inaccessible to most people and perhaps even more expensive than freehold houses.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

In China, you only buy leases, some as short as 30-40 years, but most around 90 years.