16 ms·

Bob Moore, who founded Bob's Red Mill, has died

574 points by mikhael 3y ago

chubot 3y ago
Some good testimonials for Bob's product 5 months ago: Breakfast cereal is in long-term decline (wsj.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540770 This article is great -- I didn't know the back story behind the company, but a few things stand out. - He changed careers pretty late in life. By his mid-40s, he was managing a J.C. Penney auto shop in Redding, Calif., when he wandered into a library and ran across a book called “John Goffe’s Mill,” by George Woodbury, which chronicled the author’s restoration of a run-down family flour mill - He was religious, and not in a superficial way. Mr. Moore eventually began feeling the tug of a lifelong dream: to learn to read the Bible in its original languages, including Hebrew and Koine Greek As a person who was raised without religion, I've been noticing that it can be a major reason why people make food of "irrational" quality. What I've been seeing in every area of life, including software, is "optimization" of businesses by owners. It's been taken to new heights in the last 10-20 years by private equity. They buy up working businesses and lower the quality to the amount that the market will bear, and pocket the difference. It's apparently optimizing profits for the owners, but it's destroying economic value. Multiply that by M businesses in N different industries and you have a declining country. So if you want to do something interesting and worth remembering, you need a better reason than being "rational". So kudos to Bob for this -- it seems like his life was its own reward.
- kiba 3y ago
  So if you want to do something interesting and worth remembering, you need a better reason than being "rational". So kudos to Bob for this -- it seems like his life was its own reward. You're going to need to define what 'rational' is. Optimizing a certain kind of metric beyond all reason is going to destroy whatever economic engine that is currently providing people their livelihood.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    Doesn’t seem to be true. Bob’s Red Mill seems to be doing fine.
  - banannaise 3y ago
    I believe they are referring to the modern economist's definition of "rational", which is equivalent to "profit-maximizing".
  - cogman10 3y ago
    > Optimizing a certain kind of metric beyond all reason is going to destroy whatever economic engine that is currently providing people their livelihood. I agree. The general trend of optimizing only for shareholder value has destroyed the livelihood of countless workers. Heck, it's destroyed legacy companies like kmart and sears. It's all but killed off manufacturing in the US. And, were the quality better, it'd kill off the jobs of most HN commenters as businesses would love nothing more than to offshore everything to the cheapest location possible. The economy is a giant prisoner's dilemma. It'd be far healthier if wealth was better distributed yet individual companies and shareholders can make a boatload of money by taking shortcuts and keeping things running at barebones levels.
- pimlottc 3y ago
  > As a person who was raised without religion, I've been noticing that it can be a major reason why people make food of "irrational" quality. I don’t follow, can you explain how religiosity relates to food quality?
  - parl_match 3y ago
    There's a certain emphasis, by people of a certain type of religiousness, on focusing heavily on the base needs of a person instead of "worldly" desires. I don't mean this in a condescending way, I'm having trouble expressing how it manifests. It's sort of a focus on the gifts God gave us and the way he wants us to live. I'm not religious btw, but I think I understand the mindset.
    - hyggetrold 3y ago
      Well said - I think of Quaker (edit: I meant Shaker) furniture as a great example of this.
      - psunavy03 3y ago
        In areas that have them, Amish roofers are known for top-quality workmanship, period dot.
      - InitialLastName 3y ago
        As a Quaker I appreciate the callout, but you probably mean Shaker furniture. The Religious Society of Friends isn't known for their carpentry.
        Rapzid 3y ago
        Known for something even better though; banning a certain practice from their society more than a decade before the Constitution was ratified.
        AlbertCory 3y ago
        Since my kitchen cabinets are "modified Shaker," I appreciate this. There's something about simple design that you can appreciate without being in any way religious. Christopher Alexander tries to get at it.
- nineplay 3y ago
  I have a friend who is Orthodox Christian and follows a very strict fasting schedule. I disagree with her about many things but I've always found her very thoughtful when it comes to her religion. She says she sees fasting not as a requirement from God but as a gift from God. It is a opportunity to emphasize with those in poverty. It is a way to truly appreciate every meal - saying grace before a meal take on a real significance. And it is an opportunity to be truly thoughtful about the food you are putting into your body - particularly as the fasts are often "no meat" or something else specific. She is also not surprisingly a very good cook and cooks most things from scratch. If she were to start a food company, I'm sure she'd use the same values.
  - user3939382 3y ago
    > She says she sees fasting not as a requirement from God but as a gift from God It's hard to be in prayer all day. If you're hungry however, you are perpetually reminded and thinking of God.
    - orenlindsey 3y ago
      It also allows you to focus better, undistracted by the next meal.
      - malfist 3y ago
        Undistracted by the next meal, but maybe by a growling belly
        nekasrbenda 3y ago
        Orthodox Lent is not about fasting, but about abstaining from certain foods (so probably incorrect to call it a "fast"). You are not supposed to go hungry, just be strict on what you consume.
    - hindsightbias 3y ago
      I looked into one of those Trappist Abbey breweries way back. The monks appeared pretty well fed. Brewing is fun, but getting up at 5am and praying all day...
- chubot 3y ago
  Hm I'm glad this story made it to the top. I'll indulge this train of thought some more, since it's something I've been thinking about. (But still in honor of the person who this article is about) Again, growing up without religion, I always wondered what the deal was with rules like "kosher" and "Halal". To me, it seemed like people were following old rules that didn't make sense in the modern world (though thankfully I never really voiced these opinions). Now, you can argue about the details of these rules, but the point is that there actually have to be rules beyond "rationality", as I said. --- The "rational" thing is to adulterate food, and this has been a big problem throughout history. For example, here's a picture of stamped bread from the first century AD in Pompeii - https://ridiculouslyinteresting.com/2013/07/22/preserved-loaf-of-bread-discovered-at-pompeii/ https://ridiculouslyinteresting.com/2013/07/22/preserved-loa... The stamp apparently being required to identify the baker in case of fraud. One way you can get a sense of the incentive to adulterate food is to look at all the colorful punishments for doing so - http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/09/bakers-dozen.html http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/09/bakers-dozen.html In Vienna, bakers caught selling underweight bread were put in the baeckerschupfen – a sort of cage which was then plunged into the river several times. In Turkey, a bad baker was stretched out on his own kneading table and the bastinado (foot-beating with a stick) was administered. Perhaps the most public and painful punishment was in ancient Egypt, were an offending baker could be nailed by the ear to the door of his shop, where no doubt his customers gave him even more abuse. More - https://musingsonfoodhistory.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/death-in-the-loaf/ https://musingsonfoodhistory.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/death-... A law in Britain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of_Bread_Act_1757 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of_Bread_Act_1757 --- So the "rational" thing is to adulterate food, just like the "rational" thing is to spray ads all over web content, and add dark patterns to iOS apps. It makes money, in the short term. But the cultures that survived and took over the world had rules beyond what's "rational". Christians, Jews, and Muslims all have extra rules you have to follow with regarding food. You don't really question why, but the act of compliance is a virtue. So now I no longer think the arbitrary rules are so strange. You can argue with the details, the high level bit is that you don't just optimize for your own business. You have a higher duty. --- If a society has 10,000 food producers, and all of them are doing the bare minumum, then eventually the health of the citizens is going to be the bare minimum too. The neighboring clan with stricter rules - and yes MORALS - will overtake them. --- And my point is that we're back in this situation NOW. Corporations have optimized the production of food for profit, while remaining technically legal. America’s packaged food supply is ultra-processed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551847 - https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2019/07/us-packaged-food-supply-is-ultra-processed/ https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2019/07/us-packaged-fo... America exported this problem to countries like Brazil, which started the recent research on ultra-processed foods: https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-processed-food-took-over-your-shopping-basket-brazil-carlos-monteiro https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-proce... Stories on Hacker News - https://hn.algolia.com/?q=ultra+processed+food https://hn.algolia.com/?q=ultra+processed+food (People who don't think this is real have to answer the question of why men and women weigh 30 or 50 pounds more on average than they did in 1960, etc.) --- Similar line of thought with respect to gambling and crypto - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33910537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33910537. A younger me would have thought that gambling is each person's choice. It's a free country. But if you have a society of 10,000 people where 50% of people are playing negative sum games, then pretty soon that society is not competitive anymore. They're not producing anything. The societies that simply banned gambling are the ones that survived. (And even now I don't necessarily agree with banning gambling, just saying there is a a group selection phenomenon there.) Likewise, imposing burdensome and arbitrary rules on food is probably good in the long term. That has to be a bigger reason for doing things other than making money tomorrow. We might want to bring back some of the colorful punishments, rather than letting corporations make the rules. In tech, we have poisoned our own information supply, which is profitable in the short term, but obviously bad in the long term.
- cupcakecommons 3y ago
  This seems like a very cynical take of how private equity optimization works, it may be true in some instances, but it hardly universal as you seem to be implying. There is often a tremendous amount of low hanging fruit for businesses run by individuals that is easy to replicate across businesses and industries. Focus areas like implementing basic accounting and administrative systems are often at the core of optimizing a business when you do it professionally. These things almost always add value and are entirely rational from a market perspective.
  - pjmorris 3y ago
    > These things almost always add value and are entirely rational from a market perspective. From the perspective of efficiency for the ownership, yes. However, every laid off staff member still needs to eat, house themselves, and pay their other bills. It seems to me that the long run effect, apart from good or bad intent, is that the people in society who don't have access to capital wind up having to manage at a subsistence level.
- legitster 3y ago
  Regardless of how you feel about Peter Thiel, everyone should read Zero to One. He eloquently ties together the concepts of entrepreneurialism and contrarianism Real entrepreneurs only go into business because they believe they know something that otherwise efficient markets do not. So that means you have to be a contrarian and believe in secrets or undiscovered principles. Some of the more interesting data points he includes is the decline in cult membership and belief in secrets. We as a society are generating less iconoclasts, so all that's left in business is an efficiency puzzle.
  - ponector 3y ago
    Sounds like someone who want to rationalize being a billionaire. Another funny thing is to learn about "principles" of Ray Dalio. Man has a cult but tries to proof otherwise.
  - hindsightbias 3y ago
    Cults and conspiracy thinking just went mainstream. Back in the day, conspiracies were kind of unique and interesting and you could talk to a believer about it for hours about all the details and complications. People put a lot of thinking into it. Today, conspiracies are like everything else - as shallow as the first page of google search.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > the decline in cult membership Was that written before QAnon, etc.?
    - tharmas 3y ago
      [flagged]
- rib3ye 3y ago
  There are at least two ways to optimize: 1. Max profit for a small group of shareholders 2. A cool place to work with people you like. Try explaining #2 to a PE group. [edit: typos]
- caycep 3y ago
  maybe it's a commodities mindset? vs. other companies who do a Veblen good type of market targeting, i.e. the point where raising price and quality expands the market/market segment (i.e. LVMH, Hermes, to a certain point, Apple)
- kevmo 3y ago
  I find it really interesting this went from the top comment to the bottom one.
  - dang 3y ago
    We downweighted it because it veered off topic and generic. That's standard moderation practice.
    - kevmo 3y ago
      Thanks for sharing the internal workings. I am top mod on a few large ("top 1% by size") subreddits and am always interested in those sorts of perspectives.
      - dang 3y ago
        I have zero idea of what that would be like! But FWIW downweighting top comments that are generic tangents, or flamey, is probably the biggest thing we ever figured out about thread quality. I just wish it could be automated.
neonate 3y ago
https://archive.ph/Xpkgo https://archive.ph/Xpkgo https://web.archive.org/web/20240214160536/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/13/business/bob-moore-dead.html https://web.archive.org/web/20240214160536/https://www.nytim...
Blackthorn 3y ago
A great man, whose commitment to quality resulted in a great company with a sterling brand. His commitment to the employees that made it great was equally important as it's now (and has been for a bit) an employee-owned company and stands in obvious contrast to others who built up a known quality brand only to sell out to private equity. Rest in peace, Bob.
neilv 3y ago
> Despite the company’s explosive growth, Mr. Moore fended off numerous offers by food giants to buy Bob’s Red Mill. He opted instead for an employee stock ownership plan, instituted in 2010, on his 81st birthday; by April 2020, the plan had put 100 percent of the company in the hands of its more than 700 employees. Sounds like Bob Moore had some values most of us could admire. Anyone know some of the pitfalls of an employee-owned company like that, and proven ways to avoid them? (For a tech industry example, a large chunk of CraigsList got sold by a former employee to an overlapping large company, eBay.)
- digging 3y ago
  The Craiglist example seems impossible (barring collusion) if ownership is distributed among many employees, no?
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  > Anyone know some of the pitfalls of an employee-owned company like that, and proven ways to avoid them? I guess I can't think of any. Mostly seems to have a lot of upside. I interviewed recently at an employee owned tech company - a very rare bird indeed. It sounded like they did a lot of decision making collaboratively. While the position itself wasn't that interesting, the company structure and culture seemed quite attractive.
  - anthonypasq 3y ago
    dictatorships are inherently faster moving and more decisive than democracies.
    - UncleOxidant 3y ago
      I would much prefer to live in a democracy even given that potential "downside".
      - anthonypasq 3y ago
        cool, no one suggested otherwise
calny 3y ago
Sorry to hear this, but congrats to Bob for a life well lived and building a brand that made quality products. We have their muesli multiple times a week, their farro as well, and this morning our kids loved Valentine's Day pancakes made from their mix. Thanks Bob
morning-coffee 3y ago
Kudos to Bob, for a life well lived. I love both the Oat Bran, and Scottish Oats they make.
phaedryx 3y ago
"What made you want to switch to the employee-owned model?" "I came up here to study the Bible, and the Bible says to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And so there’s an element of how you treat people that impressed me. And sharing in the profit, sharing in the company to make things more fair and more benevolent impressed me, and I felt strongly about it." source: https://www.pdxmonthly.com/eat-and-drink/2023/02/bobs-red-mill-whole-grain-portland-bob-moore-interview https://www.pdxmonthly.com/eat-and-drink/2023/02/bobs-red-mi... It's always interesting to me to see how Christianity intersects with capitalism.
- hyggetrold 3y ago
  > It's always interesting to me to see how Christianity intersects with capitalism. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a Danish person, in reference to their welfare system: "some call it socialism - in Denmark we call it Christianity."
  - UncleOxidant 3y ago
    It seems likely that Socialism would not exist without Christianity. We know that the early Christians were essentially communist - they owned everything in common. Christianity taught that wealth should not be hoarded but used to improve people's lives in community. That every person is created in the image of God and thus has value no matter what they can (or cannot) do - meaning that disabled and old people had just as much right to live as anyone else. Now the dominant American expression of Christianity (Evangelicalism) teaches that socialism is some kind of evil and has politically aligned itself with the owner class.
    - azinman2 3y ago
      That’s because it got wrapped up in right wing politics. It used to be evangelicals were equally likely from both parties. Then Regan courted them and the rest is history.
      - UncleOxidant 3y ago
chanandler_bong 3y ago
Sad day in the food world... William Post, who helped create Pop-Tarts died today as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/business/william-post-dead-pop-tarts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/business/william-post-dea...
- lIl-IIIl 3y ago
  From what I can tell, William Post worked for Kellogg. Any relation to Charles William Post, founder of the company that makes Post cereals?
  - mathgeek 3y ago
    His obituary has the answers you are looking for: https://www.mkdfuneralhome.com/obituaries/william-post#obituary https://www.mkdfuneralhome.com/obituaries/william-post#obitu...
    - laborcontract 3y ago
      Not really. The answer is no. But the obituary is worth reading as the man seems to have lived a good life.
    - lIl-IIIl 3y ago
      I did not see an answer to this in the obituary.
- harshreality 3y ago
  Pop-Tarts™ are junk food, though.
UncleOxidant 3y ago
He also essentially gave his business to his employees. He was known in the community (I live in the area) as being a very generous person and all around mensch.
- ekTHEN 3y ago
  can you explain what exactly you mean by "mensch" or which character traits are being associated with it? as a non-native english speaker i have never seen it used and just know it as the german word for "human"
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    from Oxford: "a person of integrity and honor"
  - s0rce 3y ago
    It's a Yiddish word מענטש, means honorable or admirable person
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      It's a German word meaning man and in the Yiddish use has the connotation of honorable man?
      - hellcow 3y ago
        Yes. It's a compliment in Yiddish.
      - bqmjjx0kac 3y ago
        It's kind of like saying someone is "the man" in English.
        debatem1 3y ago
        Worth noting that "the man" may instead mean police/government/etc, usually with negative connotations. So context may make this less appropriate as a synonym than "righteous dude" as mentioned above.
ericholscher 3y ago
I met him at a factory tour that we did outside of Portland. He was so humble and just seemed like a lovely human. A highlight that brings me joy every time I eat his museli for breakfast (70g museli, 70g frozen blueberries, 170g whole milk yogurt) I love that the company is employee-owned, and he just seems like an overall inspiration in many ways.
- criddell 3y ago
  Are the blueberries still frozen when you eat them?
  - Marsymars 3y ago
    Different poster, but I have a kinda-similar breakfast. I put the frozen blueberries in a bowl in the fridge the night before to thaw, or if I forget to do that just microwave them for 30s.
    - pinchy 3y ago
      I put the frozen ones straight into the pot toward the end of cooking. They thaw quickly and the juices turn the oatmeal bluish. It's great!
  - csa 3y ago
    I let my muesli, frozen blueberries, and yogurt sit for a little bit so that the muesli softens. The blueberries thaw enough during that time. Delicious!
  - dhc02 3y ago
    Frozen blueberries thaw extremely quickly. I put them into refrigerated yogurt and wait about 10 minutes and they're delicious.
  - ericholscher 3y ago
    I use the wild blueberries (smaller) for better texture, and usually just let them sit for ~5 mins and they defrost pretty quickly!
UncleOxidant 3y ago
Great to see Bob make the front page of HN. I live in the metro area where Bob's Red Mill is located. He was known to be very generous to many local causes including OHSU (Oregon Health Sciences University) and was an all around mensch. Passing the company on to it's employees was such a generous move as well. Bob is a great example of living in such a way that you get a great eulogy after you die instead of living in such a way as to accumulate as much as possible.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Moore_(American_food_executive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Moore_(American_food_execu...
xrd 3y ago
I often feel frustrated by the community here but having this story be at the top of HN gives me so much hope for my little sheltered world. Kudos to Bob, and kudos to all the people of HN.
mrinterweb 3y ago
Bob Moore was one of my friend's neighbors. Bob's home was a simple residence nothing fancy, big or flashy. Just blended right into the neighborhood. The quality of Bob's Redmill products has always been great.
demondemidi 3y ago
Bob turned the business over to the workers. It is worker owned. Isn’t this what Marx was talking about, aka a Soviet? Or am I wildly misunderstanding economic philosophy. I’m not trolling HN here, but I just have two trump loving parents who adore Bobs decision to make it worker owned and I’d like to gotcha them next thanksgiving ;) Here's their statement on being employee owned for the mute downvoters: https://www.bobsredmill.com/employee-owned https://www.bobsredmill.com/employee-owned
- LastMuel 3y ago
  I don't think employee owned, by definition, means equally shared and profits equally distributed. Which may be the root of the confusion.
  - dhc02 3y ago
    The way most ESOP plans work is more like this: 1. Owner[s] sell their stock to the company (note the company needs to be fairly successful to have the cash to buy the shares. Sometimes it's bought all at once, but often on some sort of multi-year payment plan. Bob's Red Mill took approx. 10 years to buy out Bob and his partners.) 2. The company puts the stock into a trust held for the benefit of employees. 3. A portion of shares may be immediately distributed to employees based on key status, years of service, etc. 4. The shares are used as part of benefit packages. It's sort of like a 401k that the employees don't actually have to pay anything to participate in. The longer you're there, and the more important your role (generally), the more you end up owning, and it's generally treated like employer 401k matches in terms of income tax. Usually after you reach a certain threshold, you're allowed to sell your shares to others or back to the company in order to diversify.
- richardgreeko27 3y ago
  A soviet is a governing workers' council made up of workers from various local shop floors. A worker owned co-op under capitalism is still capitalist, although theoretically less exploitative. It is not necessarily Marxist and definitely not a soviet.
dang 3y ago
I feel sure that HN had a thread or two about him over the years, most probably about how he turned his company over to the employees. But I couldn't find one. Anybody?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There are lots of mentions but I also can't find a thread. But some more interesting mentions here including a video: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7465124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7465124 another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-24qPzpC0QA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-24qPzpC0QA
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  There's this (2009): "From the Generically-Named, an Appeal for a Facebook URL Aftermarket" (rjmetrics.com) June 13, 2009. 3 comments <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=656327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=656327> Submission on the employee-owned transfer, though no discussion, 3 years ago: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26909483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26909483> Lots of comments mentions (I've set the cut-off to 6 Feb 2024 to exclude obits), several of which seem to be part of longer threads (e.g., decline of breakfast cereal discussion a few months back): <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1707264000&dateRange=custom&dateStart=1139011200&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22bob%27s%20red%20mill%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1707264000&dateRange=custom&...>
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    Correction: first is about a different Bob Moore.
csours 3y ago
I put his nutritional yeast on my popcorn. (along with butter+olive oil, Tony Chachere's, and Tajin) Thanks Bob!
reeeeeee 3y ago
[flagged]
adfm 3y ago
I just ate a bowl of Bob's steel cut oats this morning. They're the best in the business. The flours that Bob's Red Mill produces are top quality and of a purity hard matched by others. I admire his dedication to producing a first-rate product and for his forethought to establish an ESOP for the people actually producing it.
- throwway120385 3y ago
  I always get their 25 lb bags of quick oats because they're 1/5 the price of the paperboard cans and way better.
  - formvoltron 3y ago
    quick oats will spike your blood sugar.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  As someone who recently developed food sensitivities and can't eat much of anything (elimination diet), I'm thankful so many companies exist in recent years that have gluten/soy/dairy/peanut/tree nut free products. Food allergies really suck. I've started eating a lot of oatmeal and Bob's stuff is great. I also have to practically cook everything to ensure I'm not getting soy and other stuff.
- paulrpotts 3y ago
  Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats is fantastic. In recent years I've been making it as a savory, not sweet, breakfast - topped with grass-fed butter, a fried egg, and some thyme from our garden, sea salt, and black pepper. Energy for hours!
  - jihadjihad 3y ago
    Huh. I am going to have to try that, great idea! Sounds delicious.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
Aw man. I like their flaxseed as an egg substitute.
vonzeppelin 3y ago
Bob's Red Mill Extra Thick Rolled Oats with a couple of over easy eggs on top is my jam.
hedgehog 3y ago
Sad event but he built a great company. At any given time we have a few of their products at home including flour purchased by the 50lb sack.
Singletail 3y ago
He won the Golden Spurtle at the World Porridge Championships in Scotland in 2016, a rare honor. Rest in porridge.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Der_Einzige 3y ago
My local high school had a "technical center" that they would bus us and other students from other local high schools to for additional electives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabin-Schellenberg_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabin-Schellenberg_Center I was going there during the recession years, and during those years when the schools were struggling hard with funding, Bobs Red Mill sent out huge amounts of flower, vegan cheese, and other extra food they had to our culinary program. I have always loved that brand as a result, and have never declined the opportunity to buy from them. Their restaurant within their local store is also quite decent for what it is.
priprimer 3y ago
we can only hope that he will succeed where old Mr Kellog did not
klyrs 3y ago
Damn, and Bill Post just died too. Too soon for a cereal killer joke?
wizardforhire 3y ago
If you happen to be in Portland the Bob’s Red Mill factory is totally worth a visit… especially for breakfast! They make the food with flour that was milled that day and I never new that pancakes could taste so good. Truly eye opening food experience.
salute_to_bob 3y ago
Once many years ago I was eating in the restaurant at the main Bobs Red Mill location. They have a lovely second floor indoor balcony that looks over the main floor of the store, which provides lovely people watching while you eat. There is a piano on the second floor, which by itself is already pretty awesome. As I ate the tasty food, I thought to myself, it sure is nice to hear somebody play the piano while you eat and looked over to see who was playing. I squinted my eyes and said to myself, "That sure looks like the dude that is on every package of this store, he is even wearing the same hat". I walked over and to my delight it was indeed Bob Moore, playing the piano in his own store, wearing his trademark hat that you see on every package. I waited until he was done playing to thank him and shake his hand and tell him that it was an honor to meet him. Rest in peace, Bob.
- incanus77 3y ago
  I saw him on a number of occasions around the store, too, about 8-10 years ago.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Near Portland, Oregon, if anyone interested.
    - andscoop 3y ago
      Milwaukie, Oregon to be exact. It’s a fairly small city just on the edge of south Portland, but it punches above its weight class in terms of successful businesses. Bobs Red Mill, Dark Horse Comics and Dave’s Killer Bread all are headquartered here.
      - schoen 3y ago
        Does Dave's ever buy from Bob's? ... that seems like it would be very convenient!
      - postmodest 3y ago
        Dave's got bought by the Wonder Bread folks after Dave had a bit of an episode that shook up the company, IIRC.
sircastor 3y ago
An interesting listen if you're up for it, is Guy Raz's interview[1] with Bob Moore about the founding of Bob's Red Mill and how they became the company they are. It's good stuff. Personally, I'm a fan of their products. My shelves currently hold Vital Wheat Gluten, Arrowroot flour, Tapioca flour, Powered milk, and Xantham gum all from Bob's Red mill. They make quality products. [1]https://www.wnyc.org/story/bobs-red-mill-bob-moore/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/bobs-red-mill-bob-moore/
- Solvency 3y ago
  Why anyone would willingly digest xantham gum is beyond me.
  - dumbo-octopus 3y ago
    Who's digesting xanthan gum? It's a soluble fiber, the body does not process it. Compare to gluten which it often replaces and is digested, with occasional consequence.
  - sircastor 3y ago
    My squimishness about things is kind of weird when I evaluate it. I don't care about Xantham Gum or yeast - both microbial products. Honey - literally insect vomit - is also fine. Though I'd be uncomfortable eating honeycomb, and I don't handle well meat where evidence of actual living organism is notable (veins, organs, actual shapes of parts of animals) I made Xiao Long Bao a while back, and part of the process is to make essentially meat jello. Meat Jello is pretty gross to me, but when it's heated up and fills a dumpling with a rich umame soup, it's amazing. We're all different. Is there something that you eat that you think others would find wholly unpalatable?
  - dinkleberg 3y ago
    What do you see as wrong with xanthan gum?
Izikiel43 3y ago
My wife loves all his stuff, it's really good. In particular I like the polenta, I hope the quality doesn't go down now. RIP Bob
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
billiam 3y ago
For all you founders and YC aspirants who build companies to get rich as quickly as possible: think of what this man achieved and the lives that have been changed by creating something built to last. By not extracting maximum labor from employees and maximum cash for yourselves but by recognizing you matter less than you think to your company's success and your employees matter more. I buy Bob's Red Mills flour a few times a year and probably will for the rest of my life. TextPayMe, Loopt, Infogami, Memamp, Simmery- do we even remember what those first YC companies tried to do? Think about making things people will remember in a decade, or even 4.
- cj 3y ago
  Longevity is one of many benchmarks of success, and definitely not the only.
  - advael 3y ago
    Indeed, we can choose any metric we like really, as evidenced by the current reality where most people can't afford a house but we still claim that "the economy" is "doing well"
    - smegger001 3y ago
      Doing well relative to the previous financial period. Well compared to my parents generation or their parents generation not so much. better than my greatgrandparents generation though as the great depression makes now look like utopia. It all a matter of what your scale for comparison is.
      - advael 3y ago
        Again, the answer you get out of the exercise of delineating "financial periods" depends a lot on how you choose to define them. I'd say for example that good candidates for "previous financial periods" could be pre-covid, pre-2008, pre-dotcom, pre-neoliberalism, or pre-ww2. Some political commentators may prefer to use presidential administration changeovers to make their various points. Since you mention it, it's worth noting that economic conditions immediately preceding the great depression have some key similarities to some of the problems we're having now (a lot of investor fuckery, monopolies, and just outright scams, a lot of adults in a condition of economic precarity, rising global geopolitical instability, etc) though obviously there are also differences. There are many quality-of-life metrics we could choose too. For example, if you value going out on the town, the decline of so-called "third places" may be a major drop in quality of life, and if you value watching TV, the proliferation of streaming services could be the best thing that's ever happened
racl101 3y ago
Legend. His buttermilk pancake mix is still top notch.
CSMastermind 3y ago
If you've ever read the Modernist Cusine cookbooks they did a companion podcast for their last two releases and the bread one goes into Bob's story. I came away very impressed by his passion and acumen. RIP.
stephen_g 3y ago
What a coincidence, I’d never heard of him or his brand until I stumbled on one of his products and ordered it literally just two days ago (gluten free cake flour to make a cake to be edible by two coeliac family members), it should arrive today. This is Australia so his stuff isn’t common but you you can find it online but apparently it’s the best gluten free cake flour mix.
fsckboy 3y ago
I remember oatmeal when I was a kid being "al dente", and I liked that aspect of it. When instant oats came out, they were too soupy/mushy when cooked, so I always stuck to originals (and if I wanted quick, I'd just undercook them). But I've gotta say it's hard to find decent oats now, oatmeals have moved in the mushy direction across the board. Quaker Oats originals are good but not as I remember them, but Bob's Red Mill is just all mush. That convinced me (with no other information or evidence) that it must not be an "artisinal" brand, but just another front for Big Oat. (also, I've never shared the steel cut infatuation, I really prefer the taste of a rolled oat.)
- quesera 3y ago
  I prepare the Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats in a rice cooker, adding milk, sugar, and cinnamon. The result has a good toothiness to it. Not mushy!
nihilist_t21 3y ago
Oh man I eat their rolled oats every morning for breakfast! I had no idea Bob Moore was an actual person with a true story and not just a face and a name on a package from some long-dead founder to fake being a small business. I’m big into eating food which is as little processed as possible and this makes me want to try their other offerings.
rasengan0 3y ago
Those steel cut oats have been feeding our family with health for decades. What was the value of that?
nerdponx 3y ago
Bob's Red Mill made a huge difference in my life after my celiac diagnosis, and subsequent explorations around elimination diets beyond just gluten. Gluten-free baking is mostly junk food of course, but the ability to bake something that I can actually eat has really helped keep me sane over the years. Also, it's just good quality stuff in general. Like others here, I will be a lifelong customer unless something changes with the product.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
besides a wonderful example of how it's possible to build a thriving business with generosity and unselfishness, he focused on eating and living health, and lived to 94 just think of what our country would be if most businesses were like this instead of WalMart, Kroger, GeneralMills, Monsanto etc. I did not know about him until this article. I've bought Red Mill before, but you can be sure I'll be buying a lot more from them now.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
He only retired as CEO in 2018, when he was 88 years old!

574 points by mikhael 3y ago

Some good testimonials for Bob's product 5 months ago: Breakfast cereal is in long-term decline (wsj.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540770 This article is great -- I didn't know the back story behind the company, but a few things stand out. - He changed careers pretty late in life. By his mid-40s, he was managing a J.C. Penney auto shop in Redding, Calif., when he wandered into a library and ran across a book called “John Goffe’s Mill,” by George Woodbury, which chronicled the author’s restoration of a run-down family flour mill - He was religious, and not in a superficial way. Mr. Moore eventually began feeling the tug of a lifelong dream: to learn to read the Bible in its original languages, including Hebrew and Koine Greek As a person who was raised without religion, I've been noticing that it can be a major reason why people make food of "irrational" quality. What I've been seeing in every area of life, including software, is "optimization" of businesses by owners. It's been taken to new heights in the last 10-20 years by private equity. They buy up working businesses and lower the quality to the amount that the market will bear, and pocket the difference. It's apparently optimizing profits for the owners, but it's destroying economic value. Multiply that by M businesses in N different industries and you have a declining country. So if you want to do something interesting and worth remembering, you need a better reason than being "rational". So kudos to Bob for this -- it seems like his life was its own reward.

kiba 3y ago
So if you want to do something interesting and worth remembering, you need a better reason than being "rational". So kudos to Bob for this -- it seems like his life was its own reward. You're going to need to define what 'rational' is. Optimizing a certain kind of metric beyond all reason is going to destroy whatever economic engine that is currently providing people their livelihood.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Doesn’t seem to be true. Bob’s Red Mill seems to be doing fine.
- banannaise 3y ago
  I believe they are referring to the modern economist's definition of "rational", which is equivalent to "profit-maximizing".
- cogman10 3y ago
  > Optimizing a certain kind of metric beyond all reason is going to destroy whatever economic engine that is currently providing people their livelihood. I agree. The general trend of optimizing only for shareholder value has destroyed the livelihood of countless workers. Heck, it's destroyed legacy companies like kmart and sears. It's all but killed off manufacturing in the US. And, were the quality better, it'd kill off the jobs of most HN commenters as businesses would love nothing more than to offshore everything to the cheapest location possible. The economy is a giant prisoner's dilemma. It'd be far healthier if wealth was better distributed yet individual companies and shareholders can make a boatload of money by taking shortcuts and keeping things running at barebones levels.
pimlottc 3y ago
> As a person who was raised without religion, I've been noticing that it can be a major reason why people make food of "irrational" quality. I don’t follow, can you explain how religiosity relates to food quality?
- parl_match 3y ago
  There's a certain emphasis, by people of a certain type of religiousness, on focusing heavily on the base needs of a person instead of "worldly" desires. I don't mean this in a condescending way, I'm having trouble expressing how it manifests. It's sort of a focus on the gifts God gave us and the way he wants us to live. I'm not religious btw, but I think I understand the mindset.
  - hyggetrold 3y ago
    Well said - I think of Quaker (edit: I meant Shaker) furniture as a great example of this.
    - psunavy03 3y ago
      In areas that have them, Amish roofers are known for top-quality workmanship, period dot.
    - InitialLastName 3y ago
      As a Quaker I appreciate the callout, but you probably mean Shaker furniture. The Religious Society of Friends isn't known for their carpentry.
      - Rapzid 3y ago
        Known for something even better though; banning a certain practice from their society more than a decade before the Constitution was ratified.
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        Since my kitchen cabinets are "modified Shaker," I appreciate this. There's something about simple design that you can appreciate without being in any way religious. Christopher Alexander tries to get at it.
nineplay 3y ago
I have a friend who is Orthodox Christian and follows a very strict fasting schedule. I disagree with her about many things but I've always found her very thoughtful when it comes to her religion. She says she sees fasting not as a requirement from God but as a gift from God. It is a opportunity to emphasize with those in poverty. It is a way to truly appreciate every meal - saying grace before a meal take on a real significance. And it is an opportunity to be truly thoughtful about the food you are putting into your body - particularly as the fasts are often "no meat" or something else specific. She is also not surprisingly a very good cook and cooks most things from scratch. If she were to start a food company, I'm sure she'd use the same values.
- user3939382 3y ago
  > She says she sees fasting not as a requirement from God but as a gift from God It's hard to be in prayer all day. If you're hungry however, you are perpetually reminded and thinking of God.
  - orenlindsey 3y ago
    It also allows you to focus better, undistracted by the next meal.
    - malfist 3y ago
      Undistracted by the next meal, but maybe by a growling belly
      - nekasrbenda 3y ago
        Orthodox Lent is not about fasting, but about abstaining from certain foods (so probably incorrect to call it a "fast"). You are not supposed to go hungry, just be strict on what you consume.
  - hindsightbias 3y ago
    I looked into one of those Trappist Abbey breweries way back. The monks appeared pretty well fed. Brewing is fun, but getting up at 5am and praying all day...
chubot 3y ago
Hm I'm glad this story made it to the top. I'll indulge this train of thought some more, since it's something I've been thinking about. (But still in honor of the person who this article is about) Again, growing up without religion, I always wondered what the deal was with rules like "kosher" and "Halal". To me, it seemed like people were following old rules that didn't make sense in the modern world (though thankfully I never really voiced these opinions). Now, you can argue about the details of these rules, but the point is that there actually have to be rules beyond "rationality", as I said. --- The "rational" thing is to adulterate food, and this has been a big problem throughout history. For example, here's a picture of stamped bread from the first century AD in Pompeii - https://ridiculouslyinteresting.com/2013/07/22/preserved-loaf-of-bread-discovered-at-pompeii/ https://ridiculouslyinteresting.com/2013/07/22/preserved-loa... The stamp apparently being required to identify the baker in case of fraud. One way you can get a sense of the incentive to adulterate food is to look at all the colorful punishments for doing so - http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/09/bakers-dozen.html http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/09/bakers-dozen.html In Vienna, bakers caught selling underweight bread were put in the baeckerschupfen – a sort of cage which was then plunged into the river several times. In Turkey, a bad baker was stretched out on his own kneading table and the bastinado (foot-beating with a stick) was administered. Perhaps the most public and painful punishment was in ancient Egypt, were an offending baker could be nailed by the ear to the door of his shop, where no doubt his customers gave him even more abuse. More - https://musingsonfoodhistory.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/death-in-the-loaf/ https://musingsonfoodhistory.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/death-... A law in Britain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of_Bread_Act_1757 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of_Bread_Act_1757 --- So the "rational" thing is to adulterate food, just like the "rational" thing is to spray ads all over web content, and add dark patterns to iOS apps. It makes money, in the short term. But the cultures that survived and took over the world had rules beyond what's "rational". Christians, Jews, and Muslims all have extra rules you have to follow with regarding food. You don't really question why, but the act of compliance is a virtue. So now I no longer think the arbitrary rules are so strange. You can argue with the details, the high level bit is that you don't just optimize for your own business. You have a higher duty. --- If a society has 10,000 food producers, and all of them are doing the bare minumum, then eventually the health of the citizens is going to be the bare minimum too. The neighboring clan with stricter rules - and yes MORALS - will overtake them. --- And my point is that we're back in this situation NOW. Corporations have optimized the production of food for profit, while remaining technically legal. America’s packaged food supply is ultra-processed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551847 - https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2019/07/us-packaged-food-supply-is-ultra-processed/ https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2019/07/us-packaged-fo... America exported this problem to countries like Brazil, which started the recent research on ultra-processed foods: https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-processed-food-took-over-your-shopping-basket-brazil-carlos-monteiro https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-proce... Stories on Hacker News - https://hn.algolia.com/?q=ultra+processed+food https://hn.algolia.com/?q=ultra+processed+food (People who don't think this is real have to answer the question of why men and women weigh 30 or 50 pounds more on average than they did in 1960, etc.) --- Similar line of thought with respect to gambling and crypto - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33910537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33910537. A younger me would have thought that gambling is each person's choice. It's a free country. But if you have a society of 10,000 people where 50% of people are playing negative sum games, then pretty soon that society is not competitive anymore. They're not producing anything. The societies that simply banned gambling are the ones that survived. (And even now I don't necessarily agree with banning gambling, just saying there is a a group selection phenomenon there.) Likewise, imposing burdensome and arbitrary rules on food is probably good in the long term. That has to be a bigger reason for doing things other than making money tomorrow. We might want to bring back some of the colorful punishments, rather than letting corporations make the rules. In tech, we have poisoned our own information supply, which is profitable in the short term, but obviously bad in the long term.
cupcakecommons 3y ago
This seems like a very cynical take of how private equity optimization works, it may be true in some instances, but it hardly universal as you seem to be implying. There is often a tremendous amount of low hanging fruit for businesses run by individuals that is easy to replicate across businesses and industries. Focus areas like implementing basic accounting and administrative systems are often at the core of optimizing a business when you do it professionally. These things almost always add value and are entirely rational from a market perspective.
- pjmorris 3y ago
  > These things almost always add value and are entirely rational from a market perspective. From the perspective of efficiency for the ownership, yes. However, every laid off staff member still needs to eat, house themselves, and pay their other bills. It seems to me that the long run effect, apart from good or bad intent, is that the people in society who don't have access to capital wind up having to manage at a subsistence level.
legitster 3y ago
Regardless of how you feel about Peter Thiel, everyone should read Zero to One. He eloquently ties together the concepts of entrepreneurialism and contrarianism Real entrepreneurs only go into business because they believe they know something that otherwise efficient markets do not. So that means you have to be a contrarian and believe in secrets or undiscovered principles. Some of the more interesting data points he includes is the decline in cult membership and belief in secrets. We as a society are generating less iconoclasts, so all that's left in business is an efficiency puzzle.
- ponector 3y ago
  Sounds like someone who want to rationalize being a billionaire. Another funny thing is to learn about "principles" of Ray Dalio. Man has a cult but tries to proof otherwise.
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  Cults and conspiracy thinking just went mainstream. Back in the day, conspiracies were kind of unique and interesting and you could talk to a believer about it for hours about all the details and complications. People put a lot of thinking into it. Today, conspiracies are like everything else - as shallow as the first page of google search.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > the decline in cult membership Was that written before QAnon, etc.?
  - tharmas 3y ago
    [flagged]
rib3ye 3y ago
There are at least two ways to optimize: 1. Max profit for a small group of shareholders 2. A cool place to work with people you like. Try explaining #2 to a PE group. [edit: typos]
caycep 3y ago
maybe it's a commodities mindset? vs. other companies who do a Veblen good type of market targeting, i.e. the point where raising price and quality expands the market/market segment (i.e. LVMH, Hermes, to a certain point, Apple)
kevmo 3y ago
I find it really interesting this went from the top comment to the bottom one.
- dang 3y ago
  We downweighted it because it veered off topic and generic. That's standard moderation practice.
  - kevmo 3y ago
    Thanks for sharing the internal workings. I am top mod on a few large ("top 1% by size") subreddits and am always interested in those sorts of perspectives.
    - dang 3y ago
      I have zero idea of what that would be like! But FWIW downweighting top comments that are generic tangents, or flamey, is probably the biggest thing we ever figured out about thread quality. I just wish it could be automated.

neonate 3y ago

https://archive.ph/Xpkgo https://archive.ph/Xpkgo https://web.archive.org/web/20240214160536/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/13/business/bob-moore-dead.html https://web.archive.org/web/20240214160536/https://www.nytim...

Blackthorn 3y ago

A great man, whose commitment to quality resulted in a great company with a sterling brand. His commitment to the employees that made it great was equally important as it's now (and has been for a bit) an employee-owned company and stands in obvious contrast to others who built up a known quality brand only to sell out to private equity. Rest in peace, Bob.

neilv 3y ago

> Despite the company’s explosive growth, Mr. Moore fended off numerous offers by food giants to buy Bob’s Red Mill. He opted instead for an employee stock ownership plan, instituted in 2010, on his 81st birthday; by April 2020, the plan had put 100 percent of the company in the hands of its more than 700 employees. Sounds like Bob Moore had some values most of us could admire. Anyone know some of the pitfalls of an employee-owned company like that, and proven ways to avoid them? (For a tech industry example, a large chunk of CraigsList got sold by a former employee to an overlapping large company, eBay.)

digging 3y ago
The Craiglist example seems impossible (barring collusion) if ownership is distributed among many employees, no?
UncleOxidant 3y ago
> Anyone know some of the pitfalls of an employee-owned company like that, and proven ways to avoid them? I guess I can't think of any. Mostly seems to have a lot of upside. I interviewed recently at an employee owned tech company - a very rare bird indeed. It sounded like they did a lot of decision making collaboratively. While the position itself wasn't that interesting, the company structure and culture seemed quite attractive.
- anthonypasq 3y ago
  dictatorships are inherently faster moving and more decisive than democracies.
  - UncleOxidant 3y ago
    I would much prefer to live in a democracy even given that potential "downside".
    - anthonypasq 3y ago
      cool, no one suggested otherwise

calny 3y ago

Sorry to hear this, but congrats to Bob for a life well lived and building a brand that made quality products. We have their muesli multiple times a week, their farro as well, and this morning our kids loved Valentine's Day pancakes made from their mix. Thanks Bob

morning-coffee 3y ago

Kudos to Bob, for a life well lived. I love both the Oat Bran, and Scottish Oats they make.

phaedryx 3y ago

"What made you want to switch to the employee-owned model?" "I came up here to study the Bible, and the Bible says to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And so there’s an element of how you treat people that impressed me. And sharing in the profit, sharing in the company to make things more fair and more benevolent impressed me, and I felt strongly about it." source: https://www.pdxmonthly.com/eat-and-drink/2023/02/bobs-red-mill-whole-grain-portland-bob-moore-interview https://www.pdxmonthly.com/eat-and-drink/2023/02/bobs-red-mi... It's always interesting to me to see how Christianity intersects with capitalism.

hyggetrold 3y ago
> It's always interesting to me to see how Christianity intersects with capitalism. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a Danish person, in reference to their welfare system: "some call it socialism - in Denmark we call it Christianity."
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  It seems likely that Socialism would not exist without Christianity. We know that the early Christians were essentially communist - they owned everything in common. Christianity taught that wealth should not be hoarded but used to improve people's lives in community. That every person is created in the image of God and thus has value no matter what they can (or cannot) do - meaning that disabled and old people had just as much right to live as anyone else. Now the dominant American expression of Christianity (Evangelicalism) teaches that socialism is some kind of evil and has politically aligned itself with the owner class.
  - azinman2 3y ago
    That’s because it got wrapped up in right wing politics. It used to be evangelicals were equally likely from both parties. Then Regan courted them and the rest is history.
    - UncleOxidant 3y ago

chanandler_bong 3y ago

Sad day in the food world... William Post, who helped create Pop-Tarts died today as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/business/william-post-dead-pop-tarts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/business/william-post-dea...

lIl-IIIl 3y ago
From what I can tell, William Post worked for Kellogg. Any relation to Charles William Post, founder of the company that makes Post cereals?
- mathgeek 3y ago
  His obituary has the answers you are looking for: https://www.mkdfuneralhome.com/obituaries/william-post#obituary https://www.mkdfuneralhome.com/obituaries/william-post#obitu...
  - laborcontract 3y ago
    Not really. The answer is no. But the obituary is worth reading as the man seems to have lived a good life.
  - lIl-IIIl 3y ago
    I did not see an answer to this in the obituary.
harshreality 3y ago
Pop-Tarts™ are junk food, though.

UncleOxidant 3y ago

He also essentially gave his business to his employees. He was known in the community (I live in the area) as being a very generous person and all around mensch.

ekTHEN 3y ago
can you explain what exactly you mean by "mensch" or which character traits are being associated with it? as a non-native english speaker i have never seen it used and just know it as the german word for "human"
- bdcravens 3y ago
  from Oxford: "a person of integrity and honor"
- s0rce 3y ago
  It's a Yiddish word מענטש, means honorable or admirable person
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    It's a German word meaning man and in the Yiddish use has the connotation of honorable man?
    - hellcow 3y ago
      Yes. It's a compliment in Yiddish.
    - bqmjjx0kac 3y ago
      It's kind of like saying someone is "the man" in English.
      - debatem1 3y ago
        Worth noting that "the man" may instead mean police/government/etc, usually with negative connotations. So context may make this less appropriate as a synonym than "righteous dude" as mentioned above.

ericholscher 3y ago

I met him at a factory tour that we did outside of Portland. He was so humble and just seemed like a lovely human. A highlight that brings me joy every time I eat his museli for breakfast (70g museli, 70g frozen blueberries, 170g whole milk yogurt) I love that the company is employee-owned, and he just seems like an overall inspiration in many ways.

criddell 3y ago
Are the blueberries still frozen when you eat them?
- Marsymars 3y ago
  Different poster, but I have a kinda-similar breakfast. I put the frozen blueberries in a bowl in the fridge the night before to thaw, or if I forget to do that just microwave them for 30s.
  - pinchy 3y ago
    I put the frozen ones straight into the pot toward the end of cooking. They thaw quickly and the juices turn the oatmeal bluish. It's great!
- csa 3y ago
  I let my muesli, frozen blueberries, and yogurt sit for a little bit so that the muesli softens. The blueberries thaw enough during that time. Delicious!
- dhc02 3y ago
  Frozen blueberries thaw extremely quickly. I put them into refrigerated yogurt and wait about 10 minutes and they're delicious.
- ericholscher 3y ago
  I use the wild blueberries (smaller) for better texture, and usually just let them sit for ~5 mins and they defrost pretty quickly!

UncleOxidant 3y ago

Great to see Bob make the front page of HN. I live in the metro area where Bob's Red Mill is located. He was known to be very generous to many local causes including OHSU (Oregon Health Sciences University) and was an all around mensch. Passing the company on to it's employees was such a generous move as well. Bob is a great example of living in such a way that you get a great eulogy after you die instead of living in such a way as to accumulate as much as possible.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Moore_(American_food_executive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Moore_(American_food_execu...

xrd 3y ago

I often feel frustrated by the community here but having this story be at the top of HN gives me so much hope for my little sheltered world. Kudos to Bob, and kudos to all the people of HN.

mrinterweb 3y ago

Bob Moore was one of my friend's neighbors. Bob's home was a simple residence nothing fancy, big or flashy. Just blended right into the neighborhood. The quality of Bob's Redmill products has always been great.

demondemidi 3y ago

Bob turned the business over to the workers. It is worker owned. Isn’t this what Marx was talking about, aka a Soviet? Or am I wildly misunderstanding economic philosophy. I’m not trolling HN here, but I just have two trump loving parents who adore Bobs decision to make it worker owned and I’d like to gotcha them next thanksgiving ;) Here's their statement on being employee owned for the mute downvoters: https://www.bobsredmill.com/employee-owned https://www.bobsredmill.com/employee-owned

LastMuel 3y ago
I don't think employee owned, by definition, means equally shared and profits equally distributed. Which may be the root of the confusion.
- dhc02 3y ago
  The way most ESOP plans work is more like this: 1. Owner[s] sell their stock to the company (note the company needs to be fairly successful to have the cash to buy the shares. Sometimes it's bought all at once, but often on some sort of multi-year payment plan. Bob's Red Mill took approx. 10 years to buy out Bob and his partners.) 2. The company puts the stock into a trust held for the benefit of employees. 3. A portion of shares may be immediately distributed to employees based on key status, years of service, etc. 4. The shares are used as part of benefit packages. It's sort of like a 401k that the employees don't actually have to pay anything to participate in. The longer you're there, and the more important your role (generally), the more you end up owning, and it's generally treated like employer 401k matches in terms of income tax. Usually after you reach a certain threshold, you're allowed to sell your shares to others or back to the company in order to diversify.
richardgreeko27 3y ago
A soviet is a governing workers' council made up of workers from various local shop floors. A worker owned co-op under capitalism is still capitalist, although theoretically less exploitative. It is not necessarily Marxist and definitely not a soviet.

dang 3y ago

I feel sure that HN had a thread or two about him over the years, most probably about how he turned his company over to the employees. But I couldn't find one. Anybody?

jacquesm 3y ago
There are lots of mentions but I also can't find a thread. But some more interesting mentions here including a video: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7465124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7465124 another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-24qPzpC0QA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-24qPzpC0QA
dredmorbius 3y ago
There's this (2009): "From the Generically-Named, an Appeal for a Facebook URL Aftermarket" (rjmetrics.com) June 13, 2009. 3 comments <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=656327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=656327> Submission on the employee-owned transfer, though no discussion, 3 years ago: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26909483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26909483> Lots of comments mentions (I've set the cut-off to 6 Feb 2024 to exclude obits), several of which seem to be part of longer threads (e.g., decline of breakfast cereal discussion a few months back): <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1707264000&dateRange=custom&dateStart=1139011200&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22bob%27s%20red%20mill%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1707264000&dateRange=custom&...>
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Correction: first is about a different Bob Moore.

csours 3y ago

I put his nutritional yeast on my popcorn. (along with butter+olive oil, Tony Chachere's, and Tajin) Thanks Bob!

reeeeeee 3y ago

[flagged]

adfm 3y ago

I just ate a bowl of Bob's steel cut oats this morning. They're the best in the business. The flours that Bob's Red Mill produces are top quality and of a purity hard matched by others. I admire his dedication to producing a first-rate product and for his forethought to establish an ESOP for the people actually producing it.

throwway120385 3y ago
I always get their 25 lb bags of quick oats because they're 1/5 the price of the paperboard cans and way better.
- formvoltron 3y ago
  quick oats will spike your blood sugar.
7thaccount 3y ago
As someone who recently developed food sensitivities and can't eat much of anything (elimination diet), I'm thankful so many companies exist in recent years that have gluten/soy/dairy/peanut/tree nut free products. Food allergies really suck. I've started eating a lot of oatmeal and Bob's stuff is great. I also have to practically cook everything to ensure I'm not getting soy and other stuff.
paulrpotts 3y ago
Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats is fantastic. In recent years I've been making it as a savory, not sweet, breakfast - topped with grass-fed butter, a fried egg, and some thyme from our garden, sea salt, and black pepper. Energy for hours!
- jihadjihad 3y ago
  Huh. I am going to have to try that, great idea! Sounds delicious.
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01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago

Aw man. I like their flaxseed as an egg substitute.

vonzeppelin 3y ago

Bob's Red Mill Extra Thick Rolled Oats with a couple of over easy eggs on top is my jam.

hedgehog 3y ago

Sad event but he built a great company. At any given time we have a few of their products at home including flour purchased by the 50lb sack.

Singletail 3y ago

He won the Golden Spurtle at the World Porridge Championships in Scotland in 2016, a rare honor. Rest in porridge.

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Der_Einzige 3y ago

My local high school had a "technical center" that they would bus us and other students from other local high schools to for additional electives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabin-Schellenberg_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabin-Schellenberg_Center I was going there during the recession years, and during those years when the schools were struggling hard with funding, Bobs Red Mill sent out huge amounts of flower, vegan cheese, and other extra food they had to our culinary program. I have always loved that brand as a result, and have never declined the opportunity to buy from them. Their restaurant within their local store is also quite decent for what it is.

priprimer 3y ago

we can only hope that he will succeed where old Mr Kellog did not

klyrs 3y ago

Damn, and Bill Post just died too. Too soon for a cereal killer joke?

wizardforhire 3y ago

If you happen to be in Portland the Bob’s Red Mill factory is totally worth a visit… especially for breakfast! They make the food with flour that was milled that day and I never new that pancakes could taste so good. Truly eye opening food experience.

salute_to_bob 3y ago

Once many years ago I was eating in the restaurant at the main Bobs Red Mill location. They have a lovely second floor indoor balcony that looks over the main floor of the store, which provides lovely people watching while you eat. There is a piano on the second floor, which by itself is already pretty awesome. As I ate the tasty food, I thought to myself, it sure is nice to hear somebody play the piano while you eat and looked over to see who was playing. I squinted my eyes and said to myself, "That sure looks like the dude that is on every package of this store, he is even wearing the same hat". I walked over and to my delight it was indeed Bob Moore, playing the piano in his own store, wearing his trademark hat that you see on every package. I waited until he was done playing to thank him and shake his hand and tell him that it was an honor to meet him. Rest in peace, Bob.

incanus77 3y ago
I saw him on a number of occasions around the store, too, about 8-10 years ago.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Near Portland, Oregon, if anyone interested.
  - andscoop 3y ago
    Milwaukie, Oregon to be exact. It’s a fairly small city just on the edge of south Portland, but it punches above its weight class in terms of successful businesses. Bobs Red Mill, Dark Horse Comics and Dave’s Killer Bread all are headquartered here.
    - schoen 3y ago
      Does Dave's ever buy from Bob's? ... that seems like it would be very convenient!
    - postmodest 3y ago
      Dave's got bought by the Wonder Bread folks after Dave had a bit of an episode that shook up the company, IIRC.

sircastor 3y ago

An interesting listen if you're up for it, is Guy Raz's interview[1] with Bob Moore about the founding of Bob's Red Mill and how they became the company they are. It's good stuff. Personally, I'm a fan of their products. My shelves currently hold Vital Wheat Gluten, Arrowroot flour, Tapioca flour, Powered milk, and Xantham gum all from Bob's Red mill. They make quality products. [1]https://www.wnyc.org/story/bobs-red-mill-bob-moore/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/bobs-red-mill-bob-moore/

Solvency 3y ago
Why anyone would willingly digest xantham gum is beyond me.
- dumbo-octopus 3y ago
  Who's digesting xanthan gum? It's a soluble fiber, the body does not process it. Compare to gluten which it often replaces and is digested, with occasional consequence.
- sircastor 3y ago
  My squimishness about things is kind of weird when I evaluate it. I don't care about Xantham Gum or yeast - both microbial products. Honey - literally insect vomit - is also fine. Though I'd be uncomfortable eating honeycomb, and I don't handle well meat where evidence of actual living organism is notable (veins, organs, actual shapes of parts of animals) I made Xiao Long Bao a while back, and part of the process is to make essentially meat jello. Meat Jello is pretty gross to me, but when it's heated up and fills a dumpling with a rich umame soup, it's amazing. We're all different. Is there something that you eat that you think others would find wholly unpalatable?
- dinkleberg 3y ago
  What do you see as wrong with xanthan gum?

Izikiel43 3y ago

My wife loves all his stuff, it's really good. In particular I like the polenta, I hope the quality doesn't go down now. RIP Bob

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billiam 3y ago

For all you founders and YC aspirants who build companies to get rich as quickly as possible: think of what this man achieved and the lives that have been changed by creating something built to last. By not extracting maximum labor from employees and maximum cash for yourselves but by recognizing you matter less than you think to your company's success and your employees matter more. I buy Bob's Red Mills flour a few times a year and probably will for the rest of my life. TextPayMe, Loopt, Infogami, Memamp, Simmery- do we even remember what those first YC companies tried to do? Think about making things people will remember in a decade, or even 4.

cj 3y ago
Longevity is one of many benchmarks of success, and definitely not the only.
- advael 3y ago
  Indeed, we can choose any metric we like really, as evidenced by the current reality where most people can't afford a house but we still claim that "the economy" is "doing well"
  - smegger001 3y ago
    Doing well relative to the previous financial period. Well compared to my parents generation or their parents generation not so much. better than my greatgrandparents generation though as the great depression makes now look like utopia. It all a matter of what your scale for comparison is.
    - advael 3y ago
      Again, the answer you get out of the exercise of delineating "financial periods" depends a lot on how you choose to define them. I'd say for example that good candidates for "previous financial periods" could be pre-covid, pre-2008, pre-dotcom, pre-neoliberalism, or pre-ww2. Some political commentators may prefer to use presidential administration changeovers to make their various points. Since you mention it, it's worth noting that economic conditions immediately preceding the great depression have some key similarities to some of the problems we're having now (a lot of investor fuckery, monopolies, and just outright scams, a lot of adults in a condition of economic precarity, rising global geopolitical instability, etc) though obviously there are also differences. There are many quality-of-life metrics we could choose too. For example, if you value going out on the town, the decline of so-called "third places" may be a major drop in quality of life, and if you value watching TV, the proliferation of streaming services could be the best thing that's ever happened

racl101 3y ago

Legend. His buttermilk pancake mix is still top notch.

CSMastermind 3y ago

If you've ever read the Modernist Cusine cookbooks they did a companion podcast for their last two releases and the bread one goes into Bob's story. I came away very impressed by his passion and acumen. RIP.

stephen_g 3y ago

What a coincidence, I’d never heard of him or his brand until I stumbled on one of his products and ordered it literally just two days ago (gluten free cake flour to make a cake to be edible by two coeliac family members), it should arrive today. This is Australia so his stuff isn’t common but you you can find it online but apparently it’s the best gluten free cake flour mix.

fsckboy 3y ago

I remember oatmeal when I was a kid being "al dente", and I liked that aspect of it. When instant oats came out, they were too soupy/mushy when cooked, so I always stuck to originals (and if I wanted quick, I'd just undercook them). But I've gotta say it's hard to find decent oats now, oatmeals have moved in the mushy direction across the board. Quaker Oats originals are good but not as I remember them, but Bob's Red Mill is just all mush. That convinced me (with no other information or evidence) that it must not be an "artisinal" brand, but just another front for Big Oat. (also, I've never shared the steel cut infatuation, I really prefer the taste of a rolled oat.)

quesera 3y ago
I prepare the Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats in a rice cooker, adding milk, sugar, and cinnamon. The result has a good toothiness to it. Not mushy!

nihilist_t21 3y ago

Oh man I eat their rolled oats every morning for breakfast! I had no idea Bob Moore was an actual person with a true story and not just a face and a name on a package from some long-dead founder to fake being a small business. I’m big into eating food which is as little processed as possible and this makes me want to try their other offerings.

rasengan0 3y ago

Those steel cut oats have been feeding our family with health for decades. What was the value of that?

nerdponx 3y ago

Bob's Red Mill made a huge difference in my life after my celiac diagnosis, and subsequent explorations around elimination diets beyond just gluten. Gluten-free baking is mostly junk food of course, but the ability to bake something that I can actually eat has really helped keep me sane over the years. Also, it's just good quality stuff in general. Like others here, I will be a lifelong customer unless something changes with the product.

insane_dreamer 3y ago

besides a wonderful example of how it's possible to build a thriving business with generosity and unselfishness, he focused on eating and living health, and lived to 94 just think of what our country would be if most businesses were like this instead of WalMart, Kroger, GeneralMills, Monsanto etc. I did not know about him until this article. I've bought Red Mill before, but you can be sure I'll be buying a lot more from them now.

insane_dreamer 3y ago

He only retired as CEO in 2018, when he was 88 years old!