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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple Vision Pro [video]

79 points by perryizgr8 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
surprisetalk 3y ago
There are many companies whose CEOs also want to be the mascot. It seems to me that the intense, high-achieving traits of CEOs tend to make bad mascots. A good PR team can spin some of these folks as "chaotic/troubled geniuses", but it seems like they don't even try. Why don't they pay people to prevent things like this? Why don't they hire somebody unanimously likable to be the face of the company? I think every company in the S&P500 needs to find 100 middle-schoolers and pay them to be a council of cringe. Cheap way to prevent gaffes like this. EDIT: This video was a gaffe right? I'm assuming this link is notable because of how off-putting it is? Maybe I need to hire my own council of cringe haha
- dagmx 3y ago
  Mark has always wanted to be Steve Jobs. I’d argue many CEOs want to be like Steve, but Mark has tried from very early on to emulate him down to a penchant for turtle neck and dad jeans for many of his appearances. Steve, for his many flaws, was seriously charismatic and highly influential as a businessman. I can see why other CEOs hope they could have his stage presence. Unfortunately, very few have that same charisma. Mark definitely doesn’t. But it explains why he tries to be front and center
  - iwontberude 3y ago
    He comes across like Bill Gates very strongly with the way he speaks and makes pauses.
  - johnneville 3y ago
    even when Steve Jobs was saying stuff like "you're holding it wrong" i felt like he was in on the joke (self aware) about how ridiculous it was to say. i don't get that same impression of self awareness from Mark Zuckerberg
    - dagmx 3y ago
      Minor nit (not trying to defend jobs, but it’s sadly a bit apocryphal) : he never actually said that. The press event for that issue was specifically him saying that 1. They weren’t alone in having signal drop off 2. That you could hold it differently or get a case to avoid the issue. The “You’re holding it wrong” was actually a wired article take on that deflection in the first point https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/ https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/ If you watch the actual press conference, it’s very much more “Mea Culpa” https://youtu.be/Q-UgUnMt6Ds?si=D5yyGvSq4n9sOof7 https://youtu.be/Q-UgUnMt6Ds?si=D5yyGvSq4n9sOof7
- chrisfosterelli 3y ago
  Personally I thought it was interesting and a little insightful. This seems like exactly the sort of raw content that a PR team would otherwise filter down on until it was some bland, generic statement saying nothing at all. Obviously mark is bias towards his own product, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but the thought process is interesting to see.
  - iwontberude 3y ago
    Demo the Vision Pro and you will see the resolution gap is enormous and so is the visual stability and lack of warping. There are no weird laggy gaps in rendering. My Quest 3 crashed twice while trying to do basic things like play VRChat but my Vision Pro has not once crashed. My Quest 3 makes me nauseous in 15 minutes, but my Apple Vision Pro has never made me nauseous after many hours of use.
- browningstreet 3y ago
  This is the least cringe I’ve ever seen Mark, and I’m pretty adamantly anti-Mark.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    I put it much more charitably in my comment above, but yeah. I think we’re on exactly the same page here.
- Panini_Jones 3y ago
  I felt I was watching an actual analysis at first. I thought Zuck was going to give Apple credit for some of the amazing work they've done. When he mentioned that "feature X" was better on the Quest that IMO wasn't better in Quest, I realized I was watching a bad marketing video. Admittedly, I couldn't watch the full video. It feels desperate.
- johnneville 3y ago
  my takeaways were, he has a nice living room, the video captured from the quest 3 looks good, where is the teleprompter hiding, and there was no need to make a video saying he thinks his product is better the video aspect was undermined by switching to the second camera view, probably not captured on quest 3, and a reminder that there's a pro post-production team making this look good the main point of this video "quest is better" means nothing coming from him because they're his competition i appreciate his PR shift in the past few years to be more "down to earth" and public about his thoughts. it makes him more like-able to me but it doesn't make a difference to my opinion about his company or products.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  > This video was a gaffe right? Actually, I found it to be the exact opposite. My impression of Zuckerberg has never been great, and his public statements and appearances in the past haven’t done anything to improve that. My impression of him is basically as an overgrown frat boy that didn’t grow up when he should have. His recent statements in front of Congress, Meta’s apparent strategy w/r/t AI, and now this video all seem to point to one of two things: either I was wrong about him all along, or he’s matured a great deal in recent years. Whichever is the case, I came away from that video with more respect for the man.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  What negative effects do you envision this having? This is a founder and CEO advocating for his product over a competitors in the marketplace. Take his review with a grain of salt, sure, but am I supposed to believe Zuckerberg advocating for the Quest over Apple vision pro is some sort of blunder?
dagmx 3y ago
Honestly, I feel like he’s pretty disingenuous throughout this video. Talking about passthrough with a steady held view, making sure nobody moves their hands to show their bad warping. Saying Meta’s hand tracking is more accurate when it never even gets close to matching real world positions? Acting like their browser windows are an equivalent to multitasking but then ignoring that the app examples he gave as advantages are available via Safari? No mention of any of the other number of apps missing on Quest. Talking about virtual keyboard interaction as a negative, while citing physical keyboards as a solution but it’s one that AVP already supports? Making the same “open” vs “closed” market argument when the oculus store is closed as well? Does he really consider leaving basic android side loading as a big differentiator when it hasn’t been in the mobile space? Saying Quest passthrough is sharper when it’s lower resolution, higher noise and higher warping? That he caps it off by saying people who like the Vision Pro must be fanboys is so incredibly classless as well. Yes the Quest is a better console and great value (partly because it’s well known to be subsidized). I own both and IMHO Mark is talking out both sides of his mouth with this one. It just really feels incredibly insecure that he had to make this video to begin with.
- iwontberude 3y ago
  I bought a Quest 3 to compare against Vision Pro and the resolution, warping, and nauseatingly laggy and slow tracking. It's not even a close comparison. I got nauseous within 15 minutes of using Quest 3 and have not yet once gotten nauseous with Apple Vision Pro despite spending 2-4 hours at a time with it. I will wait for Meta to try again with Quest Pro 2 or Quest 4.
1shooner 3y ago
Possibly the least-impartial source of information on a product.
tkgally 3y ago
Marques Brownlee posted a thoughtful video yesterday titled “Apple Vision Pro is Missing Something…”: https://youtu.be/hOi8s2wkX4A https://youtu.be/hOi8s2wkX4A
gundmc 3y ago
There's a compelling point to be made on price and function, but Mark has to let his marketing team make that point. I'm sure it's frustrating to him, but he has to know that he doesn't have the public persona to push it forward himself.
Panini_Jones 3y ago
I worked for Meta on Quest 2. I also bought the Apple Vision Pro (I returned it today, actually). I think Quest is better tech right now, but I think the Apple Vision Pro is the better product. I'm excited to see the competition here, either way.
- johnneville 3y ago
  that's surprising to me but maybe it's just semantics. i haven't tried the Apple Vision Pro but from what i hear, the things it surpasses the quest 3 on are all what i consider technology features like display, tracking, passthrough, and interface. the things i like about my quest 3 over it are not what i consider difficult technology things, like the controllers, the games, and the integrated battery. for me "better product" equates to something like "the better thing to buy" which includes cost, and for me the quest 3 is leading in category by a large margin.
  - Panini_Jones 3y ago
    "Better product" is mostly subjective, to a degree. I think future iterations of the AVP are going to bring more value per dollar to the public than Meta's Quest or Rayban lines. The hardware, as I see it, is mostly going to be similar between the two companies (except for form factor, where I see Apple absolutely winning). The consumer market (Apple got people wearing this thing on the subway; I have no qualms giving me eye tracking data to Apple, but I do with Meta and have worked on their recommendation algorithms as well) and the software quality/ecosystem is going to be what makes Apple win this. Meta always positions themselves as the Android of the headset market, which I believe they will be. My point still stands: I love that there's competition here. If I get to see the laptop and phone be 'legacy' devices in my lifetime, I will be happy to have seen such a transition in technology.
  - pjerem 3y ago
    Of course the $3500 have better tech than the $399 thing. We still have to see what sellable product Apple will throw at us. Actually I’m pretty confident that Apple may be onto something and that it’s maybe the "next big thing". But they’ll need to cut the price by at least half if not more if they want to bootstrap the market enough to make it the next iPhone. Of course they could just market it like a high end spatial monitor but I don’t believe they’ll do : they need mass adoption if they want developers to create applications to sell on the App Store.
tengbretson 3y ago
"We designed it to way 120 grams less..." He had a 10 year head start and is already adopting the marketing language of a second place product.
- polishTar 3y ago
  what do you mean? If you've ever used a VR headset you'll know the weight is extremely important when it comes to comfort. This isn't just a random marketing metric.
  - monitron 3y ago
    "We designed [the Quest 3] to weigh 120 grams less" implies that the AVP is the benchmark by which other headsets are measured. It's funny to say you "designed it to weigh less" than a product that wasn't even unveiled yet.
- iwontberude 3y ago
  Don't forget they ousted the Q-anon Maga lunatic founder (Palmer Luckey) and then later the other left when he saw just how poorly Meta operated as a company (John Carmack).
  - iwontberude 3y ago
    To pile onto my own argument, John Carmack was employed at Bethesda for a decade. If he could stomach that for twice as long as Meta, you know Meta is a steaming piece of shit.
ein0p 3y ago
[flagged]
screye 3y ago
In 1 generation Apple solved the hand tracking UI problem better than anything Facebook has done. The quest looks like android in 3d, and is unremarkable when compared to the 2015 era oculus v1. It is faster and better in everyway. But fundamentally still the same product. I have the quest 2. I like it. But Facebook as a company is incapable on innovating in product. Reels was stolen. Stories was stolen. Threads is stolen. Instagram and whatsapp were acquired. Facebook is almost dead. Marketplace is Android UI on top of Craigslist. FAIR is genuinely groundbreaking, but that's pure research. Their open-source tooling for devs is amazing, but that's pure backend. Facebook's product org (whether intentionally or not) is incapable of true innovation.
- bryan_w 3y ago
  > Apple solved the hand tracking UI problem "Solved" is doing some heavy lifting there. From what I hear, misclicks abound and trying to delete text using the on screen keyboard is extremely broken because none of the ux designers realized that humans tend to look at what's being deleted instead of the delete key.
  - ericlewis 3y ago
    The text you’re editing appears above the keyboard and if you’re looking at that text it operates as a backspace button. It’s more intuitive than it sounds since you’ll naturally glance at it whilst backspacing. Misclicks happen quite a bit when manipulating objects with your hands. Like a cup or a vape or eating skittles. A layer of “is this hand occupied?” For the click detection would probably fix this and I’d be surprised if they don’t already have something and it’s just not released.
etchalon 3y ago
The real test of which is the "better product" will be how many of the Vision Pro ideas Meta copies, and how quickly.
- skc 3y ago
  Considering Meta shipped first, this is a bizarre thing to say.
  - jantissler 3y ago
    It's not bizarre at all unless Meta stops developing any future hardware and software for "mixed reality". We will see which features they change and add and also how they promote their devices going forward. I'm sure we will see similarities and people will declare in a few years that this is just how these devices work, totally forgetting how they used to work before Apple came along. It has happened now several times. It seems possible it will happen here again.
chromejs10 3y ago
It's obviously a CEO selling his own product so not much to comment on. There is definitely a place for both headsets. The main part I laugh at though is him complaining about a slight motion blur in Vision Pro when moving your head quickly when the quest 3 has the most insane picture warping ever in passthrough mode around the hands and edges of the screen.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  I'm a VR/AR doubter. Both of these products won't change the world, and will probably wither on the vine. Most people can't afford this stuff and it doesn't actually solve a problem. It more tickles a desire for novelty. I'm not saying they won't sell a lot of this stuff, I just don't see it being a mainstream item ever. I could be wrong, but Zuck is just trying to save his ~billions he's wasted on the metaverse.
  - Panini_Jones 3y ago
    Do you have an opinion on the future of consumer computing? Do you think we'll be using laptops in 2064? Genuinely curious.
    - gonzo41 3y ago
      I still write with pens and pencils, I am confident that typing will hang onto keyboards and laptops will be more powerful, but pretty similar to what they are now.
      - renegat0x0 3y ago
        I write more often on a "onyx boox" to take notes, and read. Do not think that everybody still uses pens and pencils that often.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    iPad is about 30 billion in revenue each year. For a device that even now many people would question what problem it solves.
mattfrommars 3y ago
I think I have legitimate say in this topic since I use Quest 3 for mostly productive reason, Quest 3 is shockingly good as a way to have multiple monitor. Yeah, it won't be as good as G9 57in Odyssey screen, it is very functional. Everytime I wear it, I genuinely marvel how well it fits on the face and light it is. All that R&D Meta has put into this is definitely shown. For folks in tech, genuinely give a try.
ghxst 3y ago
Feels a little dishonest, he would have scored some points giving Apple credit where they deserve it, especially the hand and eye tracking I think Apple has done a great job.
RantyDave 3y ago
For the majority of us, seven times cheaper is a big deal.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Vision Pro is not designed for the majority of people hence the Pro in the title. The prediction is that a standard Vision headset will launch in late 2025.
m3kw9 3y ago
It sounds like he’s trying really hard to sell an inferior product except in price point.
MichaelMug 3y ago
I happened to be at Best Buy on the launch day of the Quest 3. I was walking around the store and in the back was a Meta rep doing nothing. It seemingly did not launch with much fanfare. I tried it and was blown away by how natural and ergonomic drawing in 3D space was with Gravity Sketch was. I think that at $500 its a great value. Even at $700 for the Elite Strap with a battery. Ultimately, XR headsets will be segmented into ecosystems similar to phones. We already have Android Wear, Android TV, and Android Auto. So why not Android XR. The Quest is already based on Android. The Apple ecosystem has started with a bang. In a year or two I would not be surprised to see an entire line-up at various price points like the iPad. I suspect we will see a Vision sans "pro" to capture the Q3 price point. The Q3 has largely replaced my smart TV and iPad. I can now browse the web on a large screen from the comfort of my sofa. I've sideloaded many Android productivity apps like Outlook, Obsidian, Chromium, and 1Password. What Meta/Reality Labs should focus on next IMO is: 1. Provide an actual store for purchasing/renting TV shows and movies in particular 3D content, 2. Remove the limit of only 3 app windows visible at a time, and allow apps to be pinned in 3d space, 3. Enable running Android apps without the need for sideloading via a PC, 4. Deliver a VR chatting app with photorealistic avatars (as was demoed back in Sept. 2023) perhaps using the WhatsApp infra. 5. Better separation in Horizon Worlds between adults and kids.
bertil 3y ago
People are trying to decide which one is the best product or if Zuckerberg is being honest. I don’t think either matters so much right now. The truth is that those are two very well-funded companies with incredible engineers who are now facing very clear competition. Progress is going to be sharp. Remember when the Google Pixel came out, putting some fire under the Apple iPhone monopoly? The decade of innovation after that is what we should be looking forward to.
canuckintime 3y ago
He's... not wrong? tbh if you're interested in the 'bleeding edge' or 'future of computing' (which I've seen many people use to justify their Vision Pro purchase) then you should be buying both Vision Pro and Quest 3. The gaming content is besides the point; the fitness apps are where Quest 3, with its controllers, are far and away ahead. A table tennis or boxing app in Quest is just as mindblowing imo as watching a spatial video app on Vision Pro. Fitness and health is supposed to be a core focus for Apple yet the Vision Pro is not unsuited for that.
DueDilligence 3y ago
[dead]
difosfor 3y ago
How is Meta's model open like PCs? Do they allow you to modify the hard and software? Do they allow other hardware manufacturers to also use their store?
roolgo 3y ago
In the end only market share is going to matter.
up2isomorphism 3y ago
All AR/VR headsets needs to improve on reducing nauseous if they want to get close to mainstream. For Apple, reduce the weight, for Quest, increase resolution.

79 points by perryizgr8 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

There are many companies whose CEOs also want to be the mascot. It seems to me that the intense, high-achieving traits of CEOs tend to make bad mascots. A good PR team can spin some of these folks as "chaotic/troubled geniuses", but it seems like they don't even try. Why don't they pay people to prevent things like this? Why don't they hire somebody unanimously likable to be the face of the company? I think every company in the S&P500 needs to find 100 middle-schoolers and pay them to be a council of cringe. Cheap way to prevent gaffes like this. EDIT: This video was a gaffe right? I'm assuming this link is notable because of how off-putting it is? Maybe I need to hire my own council of cringe haha

dagmx 3y ago
Mark has always wanted to be Steve Jobs. I’d argue many CEOs want to be like Steve, but Mark has tried from very early on to emulate him down to a penchant for turtle neck and dad jeans for many of his appearances. Steve, for his many flaws, was seriously charismatic and highly influential as a businessman. I can see why other CEOs hope they could have his stage presence. Unfortunately, very few have that same charisma. Mark definitely doesn’t. But it explains why he tries to be front and center
- iwontberude 3y ago
  He comes across like Bill Gates very strongly with the way he speaks and makes pauses.
- johnneville 3y ago
  even when Steve Jobs was saying stuff like "you're holding it wrong" i felt like he was in on the joke (self aware) about how ridiculous it was to say. i don't get that same impression of self awareness from Mark Zuckerberg
  - dagmx 3y ago
    Minor nit (not trying to defend jobs, but it’s sadly a bit apocryphal) : he never actually said that. The press event for that issue was specifically him saying that 1. They weren’t alone in having signal drop off 2. That you could hold it differently or get a case to avoid the issue. The “You’re holding it wrong” was actually a wired article take on that deflection in the first point https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/ https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/ If you watch the actual press conference, it’s very much more “Mea Culpa” https://youtu.be/Q-UgUnMt6Ds?si=D5yyGvSq4n9sOof7 https://youtu.be/Q-UgUnMt6Ds?si=D5yyGvSq4n9sOof7
chrisfosterelli 3y ago
Personally I thought it was interesting and a little insightful. This seems like exactly the sort of raw content that a PR team would otherwise filter down on until it was some bland, generic statement saying nothing at all. Obviously mark is bias towards his own product, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but the thought process is interesting to see.
- iwontberude 3y ago
  Demo the Vision Pro and you will see the resolution gap is enormous and so is the visual stability and lack of warping. There are no weird laggy gaps in rendering. My Quest 3 crashed twice while trying to do basic things like play VRChat but my Vision Pro has not once crashed. My Quest 3 makes me nauseous in 15 minutes, but my Apple Vision Pro has never made me nauseous after many hours of use.
browningstreet 3y ago
This is the least cringe I’ve ever seen Mark, and I’m pretty adamantly anti-Mark.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  I put it much more charitably in my comment above, but yeah. I think we’re on exactly the same page here.
Panini_Jones 3y ago
I felt I was watching an actual analysis at first. I thought Zuck was going to give Apple credit for some of the amazing work they've done. When he mentioned that "feature X" was better on the Quest that IMO wasn't better in Quest, I realized I was watching a bad marketing video. Admittedly, I couldn't watch the full video. It feels desperate.
johnneville 3y ago
my takeaways were, he has a nice living room, the video captured from the quest 3 looks good, where is the teleprompter hiding, and there was no need to make a video saying he thinks his product is better the video aspect was undermined by switching to the second camera view, probably not captured on quest 3, and a reminder that there's a pro post-production team making this look good the main point of this video "quest is better" means nothing coming from him because they're his competition i appreciate his PR shift in the past few years to be more "down to earth" and public about his thoughts. it makes him more like-able to me but it doesn't make a difference to my opinion about his company or products.
Ancapistani 3y ago
> This video was a gaffe right? Actually, I found it to be the exact opposite. My impression of Zuckerberg has never been great, and his public statements and appearances in the past haven’t done anything to improve that. My impression of him is basically as an overgrown frat boy that didn’t grow up when he should have. His recent statements in front of Congress, Meta’s apparent strategy w/r/t AI, and now this video all seem to point to one of two things: either I was wrong about him all along, or he’s matured a great deal in recent years. Whichever is the case, I came away from that video with more respect for the man.
nonethewiser 3y ago
What negative effects do you envision this having? This is a founder and CEO advocating for his product over a competitors in the marketplace. Take his review with a grain of salt, sure, but am I supposed to believe Zuckerberg advocating for the Quest over Apple vision pro is some sort of blunder?

dagmx 3y ago

Honestly, I feel like he’s pretty disingenuous throughout this video. Talking about passthrough with a steady held view, making sure nobody moves their hands to show their bad warping. Saying Meta’s hand tracking is more accurate when it never even gets close to matching real world positions? Acting like their browser windows are an equivalent to multitasking but then ignoring that the app examples he gave as advantages are available via Safari? No mention of any of the other number of apps missing on Quest. Talking about virtual keyboard interaction as a negative, while citing physical keyboards as a solution but it’s one that AVP already supports? Making the same “open” vs “closed” market argument when the oculus store is closed as well? Does he really consider leaving basic android side loading as a big differentiator when it hasn’t been in the mobile space? Saying Quest passthrough is sharper when it’s lower resolution, higher noise and higher warping? That he caps it off by saying people who like the Vision Pro must be fanboys is so incredibly classless as well. Yes the Quest is a better console and great value (partly because it’s well known to be subsidized). I own both and IMHO Mark is talking out both sides of his mouth with this one. It just really feels incredibly insecure that he had to make this video to begin with.

iwontberude 3y ago
I bought a Quest 3 to compare against Vision Pro and the resolution, warping, and nauseatingly laggy and slow tracking. It's not even a close comparison. I got nauseous within 15 minutes of using Quest 3 and have not yet once gotten nauseous with Apple Vision Pro despite spending 2-4 hours at a time with it. I will wait for Meta to try again with Quest Pro 2 or Quest 4.

1shooner 3y ago

Possibly the least-impartial source of information on a product.

tkgally 3y ago

Marques Brownlee posted a thoughtful video yesterday titled “Apple Vision Pro is Missing Something…”: https://youtu.be/hOi8s2wkX4A https://youtu.be/hOi8s2wkX4A

gundmc 3y ago

There's a compelling point to be made on price and function, but Mark has to let his marketing team make that point. I'm sure it's frustrating to him, but he has to know that he doesn't have the public persona to push it forward himself.

Panini_Jones 3y ago

I worked for Meta on Quest 2. I also bought the Apple Vision Pro (I returned it today, actually). I think Quest is better tech right now, but I think the Apple Vision Pro is the better product. I'm excited to see the competition here, either way.

johnneville 3y ago
that's surprising to me but maybe it's just semantics. i haven't tried the Apple Vision Pro but from what i hear, the things it surpasses the quest 3 on are all what i consider technology features like display, tracking, passthrough, and interface. the things i like about my quest 3 over it are not what i consider difficult technology things, like the controllers, the games, and the integrated battery. for me "better product" equates to something like "the better thing to buy" which includes cost, and for me the quest 3 is leading in category by a large margin.
- Panini_Jones 3y ago
  "Better product" is mostly subjective, to a degree. I think future iterations of the AVP are going to bring more value per dollar to the public than Meta's Quest or Rayban lines. The hardware, as I see it, is mostly going to be similar between the two companies (except for form factor, where I see Apple absolutely winning). The consumer market (Apple got people wearing this thing on the subway; I have no qualms giving me eye tracking data to Apple, but I do with Meta and have worked on their recommendation algorithms as well) and the software quality/ecosystem is going to be what makes Apple win this. Meta always positions themselves as the Android of the headset market, which I believe they will be. My point still stands: I love that there's competition here. If I get to see the laptop and phone be 'legacy' devices in my lifetime, I will be happy to have seen such a transition in technology.
- pjerem 3y ago
  Of course the $3500 have better tech than the $399 thing. We still have to see what sellable product Apple will throw at us. Actually I’m pretty confident that Apple may be onto something and that it’s maybe the "next big thing". But they’ll need to cut the price by at least half if not more if they want to bootstrap the market enough to make it the next iPhone. Of course they could just market it like a high end spatial monitor but I don’t believe they’ll do : they need mass adoption if they want developers to create applications to sell on the App Store.

tengbretson 3y ago

"We designed it to way 120 grams less..." He had a 10 year head start and is already adopting the marketing language of a second place product.

polishTar 3y ago
what do you mean? If you've ever used a VR headset you'll know the weight is extremely important when it comes to comfort. This isn't just a random marketing metric.
- monitron 3y ago
  "We designed [the Quest 3] to weigh 120 grams less" implies that the AVP is the benchmark by which other headsets are measured. It's funny to say you "designed it to weigh less" than a product that wasn't even unveiled yet.
iwontberude 3y ago
Don't forget they ousted the Q-anon Maga lunatic founder (Palmer Luckey) and then later the other left when he saw just how poorly Meta operated as a company (John Carmack).
- iwontberude 3y ago
  To pile onto my own argument, John Carmack was employed at Bethesda for a decade. If he could stomach that for twice as long as Meta, you know Meta is a steaming piece of shit.

ein0p 3y ago

[flagged]

screye 3y ago

In 1 generation Apple solved the hand tracking UI problem better than anything Facebook has done. The quest looks like android in 3d, and is unremarkable when compared to the 2015 era oculus v1. It is faster and better in everyway. But fundamentally still the same product. I have the quest 2. I like it. But Facebook as a company is incapable on innovating in product. Reels was stolen. Stories was stolen. Threads is stolen. Instagram and whatsapp were acquired. Facebook is almost dead. Marketplace is Android UI on top of Craigslist. FAIR is genuinely groundbreaking, but that's pure research. Their open-source tooling for devs is amazing, but that's pure backend. Facebook's product org (whether intentionally or not) is incapable of true innovation.

bryan_w 3y ago
> Apple solved the hand tracking UI problem "Solved" is doing some heavy lifting there. From what I hear, misclicks abound and trying to delete text using the on screen keyboard is extremely broken because none of the ux designers realized that humans tend to look at what's being deleted instead of the delete key.
- ericlewis 3y ago
  The text you’re editing appears above the keyboard and if you’re looking at that text it operates as a backspace button. It’s more intuitive than it sounds since you’ll naturally glance at it whilst backspacing. Misclicks happen quite a bit when manipulating objects with your hands. Like a cup or a vape or eating skittles. A layer of “is this hand occupied?” For the click detection would probably fix this and I’d be surprised if they don’t already have something and it’s just not released.

etchalon 3y ago

The real test of which is the "better product" will be how many of the Vision Pro ideas Meta copies, and how quickly.

skc 3y ago
Considering Meta shipped first, this is a bizarre thing to say.
- jantissler 3y ago
  It's not bizarre at all unless Meta stops developing any future hardware and software for "mixed reality". We will see which features they change and add and also how they promote their devices going forward. I'm sure we will see similarities and people will declare in a few years that this is just how these devices work, totally forgetting how they used to work before Apple came along. It has happened now several times. It seems possible it will happen here again.

chromejs10 3y ago

It's obviously a CEO selling his own product so not much to comment on. There is definitely a place for both headsets. The main part I laugh at though is him complaining about a slight motion blur in Vision Pro when moving your head quickly when the quest 3 has the most insane picture warping ever in passthrough mode around the hands and edges of the screen.

gonzo41 3y ago
I'm a VR/AR doubter. Both of these products won't change the world, and will probably wither on the vine. Most people can't afford this stuff and it doesn't actually solve a problem. It more tickles a desire for novelty. I'm not saying they won't sell a lot of this stuff, I just don't see it being a mainstream item ever. I could be wrong, but Zuck is just trying to save his ~billions he's wasted on the metaverse.
- Panini_Jones 3y ago
  Do you have an opinion on the future of consumer computing? Do you think we'll be using laptops in 2064? Genuinely curious.
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    I still write with pens and pencils, I am confident that typing will hang onto keyboards and laptops will be more powerful, but pretty similar to what they are now.
    - renegat0x0 3y ago
      I write more often on a "onyx boox" to take notes, and read. Do not think that everybody still uses pens and pencils that often.
- threeseed 3y ago
  iPad is about 30 billion in revenue each year. For a device that even now many people would question what problem it solves.

mattfrommars 3y ago

I think I have legitimate say in this topic since I use Quest 3 for mostly productive reason, Quest 3 is shockingly good as a way to have multiple monitor. Yeah, it won't be as good as G9 57in Odyssey screen, it is very functional. Everytime I wear it, I genuinely marvel how well it fits on the face and light it is. All that R&D Meta has put into this is definitely shown. For folks in tech, genuinely give a try.

ghxst 3y ago

Feels a little dishonest, he would have scored some points giving Apple credit where they deserve it, especially the hand and eye tracking I think Apple has done a great job.

RantyDave 3y ago

For the majority of us, seven times cheaper is a big deal.

threeseed 3y ago
Vision Pro is not designed for the majority of people hence the Pro in the title. The prediction is that a standard Vision headset will launch in late 2025.

m3kw9 3y ago

It sounds like he’s trying really hard to sell an inferior product except in price point.

MichaelMug 3y ago

I happened to be at Best Buy on the launch day of the Quest 3. I was walking around the store and in the back was a Meta rep doing nothing. It seemingly did not launch with much fanfare. I tried it and was blown away by how natural and ergonomic drawing in 3D space was with Gravity Sketch was. I think that at $500 its a great value. Even at $700 for the Elite Strap with a battery. Ultimately, XR headsets will be segmented into ecosystems similar to phones. We already have Android Wear, Android TV, and Android Auto. So why not Android XR. The Quest is already based on Android. The Apple ecosystem has started with a bang. In a year or two I would not be surprised to see an entire line-up at various price points like the iPad. I suspect we will see a Vision sans "pro" to capture the Q3 price point. The Q3 has largely replaced my smart TV and iPad. I can now browse the web on a large screen from the comfort of my sofa. I've sideloaded many Android productivity apps like Outlook, Obsidian, Chromium, and 1Password. What Meta/Reality Labs should focus on next IMO is: 1. Provide an actual store for purchasing/renting TV shows and movies in particular 3D content, 2. Remove the limit of only 3 app windows visible at a time, and allow apps to be pinned in 3d space, 3. Enable running Android apps without the need for sideloading via a PC, 4. Deliver a VR chatting app with photorealistic avatars (as was demoed back in Sept. 2023) perhaps using the WhatsApp infra. 5. Better separation in Horizon Worlds between adults and kids.

bertil 3y ago

People are trying to decide which one is the best product or if Zuckerberg is being honest. I don’t think either matters so much right now. The truth is that those are two very well-funded companies with incredible engineers who are now facing very clear competition. Progress is going to be sharp. Remember when the Google Pixel came out, putting some fire under the Apple iPhone monopoly? The decade of innovation after that is what we should be looking forward to.

canuckintime 3y ago

He's... not wrong? tbh if you're interested in the 'bleeding edge' or 'future of computing' (which I've seen many people use to justify their Vision Pro purchase) then you should be buying both Vision Pro and Quest 3. The gaming content is besides the point; the fitness apps are where Quest 3, with its controllers, are far and away ahead. A table tennis or boxing app in Quest is just as mindblowing imo as watching a spatial video app on Vision Pro. Fitness and health is supposed to be a core focus for Apple yet the Vision Pro is not unsuited for that.

DueDilligence 3y ago

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difosfor 3y ago

How is Meta's model open like PCs? Do they allow you to modify the hard and software? Do they allow other hardware manufacturers to also use their store?

roolgo 3y ago

In the end only market share is going to matter.

up2isomorphism 3y ago

All AR/VR headsets needs to improve on reducing nauseous if they want to get close to mainstream. For Apple, reduce the weight, for Quest, increase resolution.