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BMW I3 Owner Confronted with $71,000 Bill to Replace EV Battery
- pornel 3y agoThe headline sounds like yet another anti-EV scare, but surprisingly the article actually explains this is a fuck-you quote, and the real repair cost can be a fraction of that.
- mr337 3y agoAgree, I wish the manufactures would do something to reign in these costs as it is doing a disservice to EVs. Anyone on the fence about purchasing a BEV, a headline like this doesn't bode well.
- p0w3n3d 3y agoHowever companies should be prohibited to propose such quotes at all. they do it because they will earn more on selling a new car, meanwhile what they wipe their mouths with are ecology slogans
- EdwardDiego 3y agoThese prices seem very consistent with BMW's pricing practices in general for all its vehicles. They get very cheap secondhand around the 6 year / 100000km mark in my country, as that's when bits start breaking and you may as well just buy a new one.
- consumer451 3y agoUsed German automobiles are weapons of economic mass destruction. I say this only half jokingly.
- htatche 3y agoCrazy to think there was a time where they used to represent the complete opposite.
- EdwardDiego 3y agoThe urban folk knowledge I was told is that a) Germans love leasing cars, not buying them and b) if you salt the roads in winter, cars will rust sooner rather than later, and that's only something you can delay, not prevent. Ergo (so the folk knowledge goes), their cars are engineered for a short-term market. Amazingly reliable and fun in the designed for lifetime, after that, it's in God's hands. I have no idea how true that is, but it feels kinda truth adjacent, from my compassionate listening to owners of secondhand BMWs. Oh, and apparently, there's a bit of a European car part cartel in my country, so spares are even more expensive than they already are. I've never had to deal in urban folklore when owning Toyotas though.
- zhdc1 3y agoDoesn’t track with me. Live in Central Europe. Most of the people we know either own their cars outright or take public transportation. Many companies north of the border (Germany) offer company cars as an incentive, which iirc are leased, but these eventually hit the resale market as one year or CPO vehicles. Most cars also have a fairly long anti-corrosion warranty. That said, reliability issues were more a matter of 1. US style cost cutting (remember Daimler Chrysler?) 2. getting caught by surprise by the horse power wars of the naughts and early teens. Engines and associated parts were rushed to market without proper testing. These issues have largely been reversed. Modern BMWs are almost/as reliable as Japanese manufacturers while MB is starting to close the gap.
- sokoloff 3y ago> remember Daimler Chrysler? Sadly, yes. “In the phrase ‘Daimler-Chrysler’, the Daimler is silent.”
- zhdc1 3y agoIt was the opposite, to be honest. Chrysler knew they were toast. They either had to be bought out, mortgage everything for massive capital investment (which is what Ford did), or eventually go under. Meanwhile, Daimler executives wanted a way to get American compensation. A ‘merger’ that would turn them into an ‘American’ company was their preferred option. Of course, the Chrysler executive team was eventually shown the exit, the company was run from Germany, and it turned out that Daimler’s leadership was making a number of other major mistakes (this is around the time when reliability went down hill, and it had nothing to do with Chrysler).
- heelix 3y agoYup. Not uncommon to get a really high quote when someone really does not want to do the work. We had a florescent light in a utility room that my Bride wanted to replace with another light fixture. She called a contractor who quoted $2k labor to swap in her new hardware - a 20 minute job for an amateur like me. Another contractor had offered to install 3 new toilets for about $6K labor. These prices were so far out of expectations they were really saying we don't want to do these gigs... nicely. (or take your money if you don't know any better... hard to say which) I once had a gig where I was told to go directly to the airport. They booked one of the nicest hotels, nicest flights, half way around the world and charged them a small fortune for me to show them they ate an Exception. Apparently our company had really tried to say no, and charged them an unholy amount of money... and they still said yes.
- talldatethrow 3y agoWelcome to the new pricing structure of contractors. I blame YouTube and Facebook groups that basically all congratulate themselves for figuring out "charge 3x more, thus making 6x profits, and just do 1/6th the work!"
- instagib 3y agoDoesn’t hurt to shop around. From my research the replacement costs varied from $20k to $40k for electric vehicle batteries repair quotes. For city driving you charge to 80% so the batteries last quite a while. Charging network still is bad. Many stations are broken but appear working in what I have seen driving with a friend who has an EV or looking up station reviews. They didn’t need to charge but wanted to because of little time at home or hotel.
- bdcravens 3y agoThey want to push people to buy an i4 instead of keeping the i3 on the road. There's work I can do, but hate to, and if you asked me for a quote, I'd probably quote you $1000/hour (and pray you say no)
- mensetmanusman 3y agoSir, did you know you are driving a battery? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQKVDUBu2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQKVDUBu2g
- ActorNightly 3y agoIf there is anything that requires consumer protection its the batteries in these cars. The interface should not be proprietary. There should be no reason why you couldn't buy $7000 worth of batteries, put them together with BMS systems, and replace them yourself.
- mr337 3y agoThe only thing I can think of is the high voltage. I don't mind working with 220v but anything higher I tend to shy away with. I think some of the voltage systems in the battery packs can peak at 800v with most of them between 400v and 600v.
- beachy 3y agoThe EV is also DC, significantly more dangerous than the AC at the same voltage.
- Glawen 3y agoWell, no, AC is more lethal, also it contracts the muscles more easily. The high voltage ranges are different between AC and DC, with AC being lower than DC range due to the higher risk.
- aitchnyu 3y agoEven in college, I was taught AC passes on your skin away from your heart and is therefore safer at the same voltage. Is this a myth?
- petre 3y agoIt's complicated and likely not at all relevant at 50 or 60 Hz frequencies. You want the sqrt(2p/ωμ) formula if you're curious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
- 3y ago
- tallbikeguy 3y ago[dead]
- dzhiurgis 3y agoIt's at least $13k for Tesla's battery which is kinda cheap when 2 of their Powerwalls with 3x less cells cost the same.
- thejazzman 3y agoThey invoiced me $15k for a refurbished battery AND took my "old" battery AND admitted the issue had notting to do with my usage of the car (the pack leaked water and a wire corroded; they refused to repair it)
- caminante 3y agoDid you contest the charge or not?
- twisteriffic 3y agoIn all seriousness, who would you contest it with? That's the kind of scenario that scares me with Tesla. You can't take to social media to put pressure on a local dealer because they don't exist, and say anything vaguely negative about Tesla and you'll be swarmed by Elons fan army.
- talldatethrow 3y agoNot only that, when things get stupid people often sue car dealerships and have surprisingly good odds at success if the story is at all reasonable against the dealer. (sold cars for 10 years, saw some very favorable outcomes for customers) and for that reason dealers also give in pretty easily if they've actually done wrong. Compare that to taking Tesla itself to court.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoSmall claims court has a $12,500 limit in CA. Sounds like a decent fit.
- LispSporks22 3y agoI hope the growing EV market doesn’t develop throw away tendencies. Imagine a car, but quickly obsolete like an Android phone
- rad_gruchalski 3y agohttps://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
- seltzered_ 3y agoDala's EV repair has a pretty good video ( https://youtu.be/EH02scyrCaE https://youtu.be/EH02scyrCaE ) on the technical challenges of replacing a bmw i3 battery: - You need to do a refrigerant evacuation and use appropriate compressor oil. - You might need certification for handling a 400v battery. - There's a special BMW tool for the BMS.
- talldatethrow 3y agoYou Should have an evacuation system. Many people working on cars just vent it, similar to what happens in every semi serious car accident where the front ac condenser is damaged. Or what happens in most 15 year old systems that simply vent to the atmosphere from leaking seals and require a fillup. Not ideal, but a diy usually just goes for it. You might want certification to stay alive, but again, tons of diys are making due on Chevy volts.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mrlambchop 3y agoI just bought an i3 REX ~3 months ago - it's the perfect car for driving in SF, especially with the range extender for reducing range anxiety. Before purchasing, I had the exact same concerns as raised in this article. Here is what I found out: - California mandates that PZEV certified vehicles be covered for 15 years/ 150k miles for all emissions related parts (i.e. the range extender engine). - For batteries or energy storage devices of vehicles certified to the Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (PZEV) emissions standard, they must be covered for 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first. The i3 REX happens to fall into this PZEV category and so I've great warranty coverage. If the battery drops below 70% or outright fails, its fixed free of charge within this time frame. This owner hadn't purchased an i3 with the Range Extender option - if they did however, they could move their car registration to CA and would get this repair for free. The warranty for BMW vehicles post 2011 is on the state a vehicle is registered in, not the state a vehicle was originally imported or last sold in.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- talldatethrow 3y agoI've seen this discussed heavily in Chevy Volt forums. People have bought Volts with the 150k mile warranty and left the state, and it would not be honored in the other state even though bought in a carb state. People buying a non carb volt and then moving to a carb state were not able to get the warranty. I have a feeling that note you have about the state mattering helps them disqualify a warranty, but they aren't going to GIVE you one just for entering the state with an out of state car.
- MagicMoonlight 3y agoThere’s no way they would accept that. You can’t just declare that your vehicle is now in a different jurisdiction in order to take their money. That’s clearly fraud.
- oohffyvfg 3y ago[flagged]
- sokoloff 3y agoAre liberals generally opposed to socialist policies? That’s not been my experience. Are you confusing liberals and libertarians, perhaps?
- bartimus 3y agoIt doesn't look very complicated to replace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9Tx0CxLTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9Tx0CxLTg
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago[dead]
- RecycledEle 3y agoIf we had a standard for the physical size of batteries, the electrical connectors, the voltages, and the data signals, then this would not be a problem. Here's a made-up example: • A standard battery should be 28 inches by 18 inches by 6 inches. The battery screws in with 4x 12mm bolts at the corners. • The voltage across 2 terminals can vary between 200 V and 400 V DC, but one battery can function in a smaller range (e.g., 250 V to 400 V.) • Signaling is done by a variant of CANBUS tunneled through Ethernet using automotive Cat 6 connectors. • Multiple batteries can be connected in series, even if they have different battery chemistries. • It is OK to have a battery or capacitor bank connected into the terminals through DC/DC converters. This allows capacitor banks to be used efficiently. • Each battery is responsible for disconnecting itself from the voltage bus if it senses a wrong voltage or current. That means if a charged battery is plugged into a vehicle with a discharged battery in it, there is no arcing. The new battery stays disconnected until the 2 batteries are close enough in voltage to let them safely connect in parallel. A standard for battery busses would make it much easier to build electric cars because there would be no need to reinvent the battery pack for every new car. A standard for batteries would facilitate competition and lower the cost if building, buying, and maintaining EVs.