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Chat protocols being standardized would be way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores". Many app stores is actually a negative for me,

by bni 3y ago

Chat protocols being standardized would be way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores". Many app stores is actually a negative for me, going by my experience from Windows gaming.

kj99 3y ago
This - they should just mandate RCS, or maybe actually invest in developing a modern European standard and then mandate that. It’s not like they don’t have research universities with CS departments who could be part of a standards body. I don’t mean they should limit alternatives - just that they should require a modern, E2EE standard on all phones, and then we can all just shut up about this.
- troupo 3y ago
  > they should just mandate RCS RCS doesn't have e2ee in the standard.
  - kj99 3y ago
    Agreed. Which is why I think they should come up with an official standard that does.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Or matrix. It's really great and it can interface with most other networks already.
- bni 3y ago
  No please don't mandate a specific protocol (that probably suck!) instead require the successful/important protocol tho become interoperable.
  - kj99 3y ago
    If you mandate that the winning protocol be interoperable you end forward progress on that protocol. If you mandate an official protocol be available alongside others, that protocol can be kept up to date by committee.
- dbbk 3y ago
  It won't be mandated but iOS is getting RCS so we can all move on
kube-system 3y ago
We already had messaging standards, but people migrated to other options because they liked the features/price/etc of other options. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
offices 3y ago
>going by my experience from Windows gaming. Could you elaborate? Steam is a negative and Microsoft Store is a positive experience?
- pbmonster 3y ago
  They probably mean it's annoying to be forced to get the EPIC store or battle.net just for the 1-2 interesting games that are not on Steam.
  - Ajedi32 3y ago
    Correct. But at the same time GP is right that without the freedom to have alternative "app stores" on Windows, Steam couldn't exist.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    "forced" is a strong word when some of these games could have not existed or be delayed for a few years without EPIC's money, and you still get the choice to just not play them at all (it's a game, not a CAD tool mandated by a client)
amelius 3y ago
Funny thing is that in the telecommunications act it was actually enforced that telecom operators had to interoperate. What's old is new again.
pbmonster 3y ago
> way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores" It's not only alternative app stores. It's browsers with ad-blockers, youtube clients that auto-skip sponsor messages in the middle of videos and apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source.
- freedomben 3y ago
  > apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source Interesting, I'm generally very opposed to Apple's way, but this sounds like a real unexpected benefit (silver lining on the cloud maybe?). It enables what I've long asked for from devs, mainly that they make the source available to paying customers.
  - pbmonster 3y ago
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think I mean something else. I'm talking about this phenomenon: A software project is using an open source licence. And app gets made for Android, and because of culture or GPL, the app is open source, too. But on Google Play, the app costs money, contains ads, or there is sub-features, that you only get if you pay a (one time/monthly) fee. But because it's trivial to sideload on Android, I can just get the app from github (or from the open source app store FDroid) and install it myself, for free. No ads, no locked content.
    - oluwie 3y ago
      Installing it means installing a bundle or a package, which would come with all of the ads and intricacies you want to get away from. There are almost no applications (at least that I've found) where you can download the source code of the app, build it and then install it locally to your device (except for testing of course).
      - pbmonster 3y ago
        I've been using FDRoid for many years now, so maybe it changed, but the two important examples always where: * OSMand, the main openstreetmaps client on android: the version on Google Play comes just with the basics, if you want extras, like the topographic height contour lines overlaid on your maps, which is important for mountain sports, you had to pay, even that data is free and the feature is GPL-3.0. * Simple Mobile Tools, a huge software suite of little tools (address book, voice recorder, calendar, ect.): if you get it from Google Play, it nags you to buy the "thank you" app, even if you already bought it. They has also started releasing "Pro" versions of the tools, which have more functionality and for which you have to pay - again. Everything is GPL-3.0., and therefor free on FDRoid.
dktp 3y ago
The fact that the software I have on my Mac is not tied to what I can download from Apple Store is basically the sole reason it's useful to me
lxgr 3y ago
Fortunately the EU is mandating both! > Many app stores is actually a negative for me Just don't use them, then! They're not mandatory for consumers.
- bni 3y ago
  Until the app I really want require me to install their own crapware store/launcher. Or even worse, that utility apps that are needed in daily life require their own "store"
  - sircastor 3y ago
    While I don't think we'll see Meta do this for their apps, I do expect (if they can stomach the cost) Epic and Valve to build their own stores. Epic didn't have much success getting Android users to sideload Fortnite, so I don't know how well it will go for either, but I know that gamers are a dedicated bunch and both Valve and Epic want to have the user-level connection.
    - danaris 3y ago
      From what I've seen, one of the requirements of a competing App Marketplace on iOS is that they allow any developer to submit apps to them—I'm unclear on whether they can restrict by category (eg, only allow games), but AIUI they can't just restrict their own marketplace to selling the apps they themselves publish. This is a very interesting requirement, and will definitely at least make companies like Epic, Valve, and Facebook pause and think before deciding whether they actually want to be running an App Marketplace.
  - kevingadd 3y ago
    Then don't install them. The iOS app store is full of competition, plus shameless rip-off apps that got past review.
makeitdouble 3y ago
> Windows gaming Are you saying it's worse than Mac gaming ? Or lower quality than mobile gaming ? I'm perplexed.
- bni 3y ago
  Windows gaming is great. Remembering what store you bought a specific game on, and then have to install their crapware launcher to run it, that sucks.

by bni 3y ago

kj99 3y ago

This - they should just mandate RCS, or maybe actually invest in developing a modern European standard and then mandate that. It’s not like they don’t have research universities with CS departments who could be part of a standards body. I don’t mean they should limit alternatives - just that they should require a modern, E2EE standard on all phones, and then we can all just shut up about this.

troupo 3y ago
> they should just mandate RCS RCS doesn't have e2ee in the standard.
- kj99 3y ago
  Agreed. Which is why I think they should come up with an official standard that does.
wkat4242 3y ago
Or matrix. It's really great and it can interface with most other networks already.
bni 3y ago
No please don't mandate a specific protocol (that probably suck!) instead require the successful/important protocol tho become interoperable.
- kj99 3y ago
  If you mandate that the winning protocol be interoperable you end forward progress on that protocol. If you mandate an official protocol be available alongside others, that protocol can be kept up to date by committee.
dbbk 3y ago
It won't be mandated but iOS is getting RCS so we can all move on

kube-system 3y ago

We already had messaging standards, but people migrated to other options because they liked the features/price/etc of other options. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

offices 3y ago

>going by my experience from Windows gaming. Could you elaborate? Steam is a negative and Microsoft Store is a positive experience?

pbmonster 3y ago
They probably mean it's annoying to be forced to get the EPIC store or battle.net just for the 1-2 interesting games that are not on Steam.
- Ajedi32 3y ago
  Correct. But at the same time GP is right that without the freedom to have alternative "app stores" on Windows, Steam couldn't exist.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  "forced" is a strong word when some of these games could have not existed or be delayed for a few years without EPIC's money, and you still get the choice to just not play them at all (it's a game, not a CAD tool mandated by a client)

amelius 3y ago

Funny thing is that in the telecommunications act it was actually enforced that telecom operators had to interoperate. What's old is new again.

pbmonster 3y ago

> way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores" It's not only alternative app stores. It's browsers with ad-blockers, youtube clients that auto-skip sponsor messages in the middle of videos and apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source.

freedomben 3y ago
> apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source Interesting, I'm generally very opposed to Apple's way, but this sounds like a real unexpected benefit (silver lining on the cloud maybe?). It enables what I've long asked for from devs, mainly that they make the source available to paying customers.
- pbmonster 3y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think I mean something else. I'm talking about this phenomenon: A software project is using an open source licence. And app gets made for Android, and because of culture or GPL, the app is open source, too. But on Google Play, the app costs money, contains ads, or there is sub-features, that you only get if you pay a (one time/monthly) fee. But because it's trivial to sideload on Android, I can just get the app from github (or from the open source app store FDroid) and install it myself, for free. No ads, no locked content.
  - oluwie 3y ago
    Installing it means installing a bundle or a package, which would come with all of the ads and intricacies you want to get away from. There are almost no applications (at least that I've found) where you can download the source code of the app, build it and then install it locally to your device (except for testing of course).
    - pbmonster 3y ago
      I've been using FDRoid for many years now, so maybe it changed, but the two important examples always where: * OSMand, the main openstreetmaps client on android: the version on Google Play comes just with the basics, if you want extras, like the topographic height contour lines overlaid on your maps, which is important for mountain sports, you had to pay, even that data is free and the feature is GPL-3.0. * Simple Mobile Tools, a huge software suite of little tools (address book, voice recorder, calendar, ect.): if you get it from Google Play, it nags you to buy the "thank you" app, even if you already bought it. They has also started releasing "Pro" versions of the tools, which have more functionality and for which you have to pay - again. Everything is GPL-3.0., and therefor free on FDRoid.

dktp 3y ago

The fact that the software I have on my Mac is not tied to what I can download from Apple Store is basically the sole reason it's useful to me

lxgr 3y ago

Fortunately the EU is mandating both! > Many app stores is actually a negative for me Just don't use them, then! They're not mandatory for consumers.

bni 3y ago
Until the app I really want require me to install their own crapware store/launcher. Or even worse, that utility apps that are needed in daily life require their own "store"
- sircastor 3y ago
  While I don't think we'll see Meta do this for their apps, I do expect (if they can stomach the cost) Epic and Valve to build their own stores. Epic didn't have much success getting Android users to sideload Fortnite, so I don't know how well it will go for either, but I know that gamers are a dedicated bunch and both Valve and Epic want to have the user-level connection.
  - danaris 3y ago
    From what I've seen, one of the requirements of a competing App Marketplace on iOS is that they allow any developer to submit apps to them—I'm unclear on whether they can restrict by category (eg, only allow games), but AIUI they can't just restrict their own marketplace to selling the apps they themselves publish. This is a very interesting requirement, and will definitely at least make companies like Epic, Valve, and Facebook pause and think before deciding whether they actually want to be running an App Marketplace.
- kevingadd 3y ago
  Then don't install them. The iOS app store is full of competition, plus shameless rip-off apps that got past review.

makeitdouble 3y ago

> Windows gaming Are you saying it's worse than Mac gaming ? Or lower quality than mobile gaming ? I'm perplexed.

bni 3y ago
Windows gaming is great. Remembering what store you bought a specific game on, and then have to install their crapware launcher to run it, that sucks.