17 ms·

Door Boeing 737 pre-MAX opens after takeoff, aircraft returns in safety

43 points by j-a-a-p 3y ago

progbits 3y ago
> There is no connection whatsoever with the door plug problem of the 737 MAX 9: in this case it concerns a 737 of the previous generation, where the door was not properly closed airtight before departure. (Machine translated from the linked article)
amarant 3y ago
Seems Boeing just can't catch a break lately. I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't a warning in the cockpit for a poorly closed door on an airplane. My car warns me of that! (Granted, my car door isn't necessarily airtight, but still)
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  > I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't a warning in the cockpit for a poorly closed door on an airplane. There are multiple. In the 737NG, for example, you'd expect the "master caution" light to come on, an audible chime, and an indicator "DOORS" You can see this yourself in the flight crew operations manual: https://www.pilot18.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/B-737-7-8-900_FCOM_TBC_C_080125_V1V2_B8P-C.pdf https://www.pilot18.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/B-737-7-8... see page 15.10.1. (pdf page 1793) The details on the meaning of this light are on page 15.20.4 (pdf page 1812)
  - uomo 3y ago
    That’s interesting. In the article it says: > According to De Telegraaf, no signal would have come through in the cockpit before departure that the door was not closed properly.
    - dmitrygr 3y ago
      they are wrong. see edited and expanded parent post
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      That obviously makes no sense. My car will tell me if a door is open, but somehow there is no sensor to detect this on a plane, where such a thing would be catastrophic as the plane gained altitude.
  - amarant 3y ago
    Interesting! I guess that leaves 2 possibilities. Either the pilots ignored/missed the warnings(seems unlikely), or the warning system was somehow faulty(seems more likely, given Boeings recent track record)
sjaak 3y ago
Key bit from the article translated: There is no connection to recent problem with the 737 MAX 9 where a door plug was not installed correctly. Instead, this occurred on an older (previous generation) 737 airplane. The cause of this incident is that the door had not been closed properly prior to take-off. (original Dutch: "Er is geen enkel verband met de deurplugproblematiek van de 737 MAX 9: het gaat in dit geval om een 737 van de vorige generatie, waarbij de deur voor vertrek niet goed luchtdicht was afgesloten.")
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  They say that, but the doors are closed, cross checked and then the pilots would be alerted by a sensor if a door is open. So did three or four members of staff get this simple thing wrong or is the plane at fault?
  - creshal 3y ago
    Are the door sensors redundant on the 737, or do the crew and pilot just check different readouts of the same?
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      One flight attendant physically closes and arms the door, so it is in automatic mode such that the slide will deploy if its opened, then a separate flight attendant physically checks that it is closed and armed. I have no information the sensor redundancy, but the physical checks are redundant.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  How can a plane take off if the door isn't properly closed? How isn't there a detector, and a mechanism that just prevent the plane to even move if the door isn't closed. That's what trains do (and the earlier iteration of this design in train is decades old and really basic: on old trains there's a wire running through all doors which are acting as switches mounted in serial: if one is open, there's no current)
Aeolun 3y ago
This is such a weird way to write this: Bij het opstijgen van een Transavia-vlucht is vorige maand een deur van het toestel een beetje opengegaan Duing ascent of the Transavia flight, the door of the airplane opened a little bit (emphasis mine). What the hell, how does the door on your airplane open ‘a little bit’?
CafeRacer 3y ago
Ah, here we go again :-D
xp84 3y ago
Only going from the translation, this seems more likely to be a maintenance issue or crew error than another shocking quality problem, since I believe the 737-800 and -700s that they fly haven't been manufactured since at latest 2020, and their average age of their (Transavia's) 737 fleet is 13 years. As disappointing as it was watching the recent Wendover video breaking down the Boeing decline, this is probably not part of the story.

43 points by j-a-a-p 3y ago

> There is no connection whatsoever with the door plug problem of the 737 MAX 9: in this case it concerns a 737 of the previous generation, where the door was not properly closed airtight before departure. (Machine translated from the linked article)

amarant 3y ago

Seems Boeing just can't catch a break lately. I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't a warning in the cockpit for a poorly closed door on an airplane. My car warns me of that! (Granted, my car door isn't necessarily airtight, but still)

dmitrygr 3y ago
> I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't a warning in the cockpit for a poorly closed door on an airplane. There are multiple. In the 737NG, for example, you'd expect the "master caution" light to come on, an audible chime, and an indicator "DOORS" You can see this yourself in the flight crew operations manual: https://www.pilot18.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/B-737-7-8-900_FCOM_TBC_C_080125_V1V2_B8P-C.pdf https://www.pilot18.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/B-737-7-8... see page 15.10.1. (pdf page 1793) The details on the meaning of this light are on page 15.20.4 (pdf page 1812)
- uomo 3y ago
  That’s interesting. In the article it says: > According to De Telegraaf, no signal would have come through in the cockpit before departure that the door was not closed properly.
  - dmitrygr 3y ago
    they are wrong. see edited and expanded parent post
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    That obviously makes no sense. My car will tell me if a door is open, but somehow there is no sensor to detect this on a plane, where such a thing would be catastrophic as the plane gained altitude.
- amarant 3y ago
  Interesting! I guess that leaves 2 possibilities. Either the pilots ignored/missed the warnings(seems unlikely), or the warning system was somehow faulty(seems more likely, given Boeings recent track record)

sjaak 3y ago

Key bit from the article translated: There is no connection to recent problem with the 737 MAX 9 where a door plug was not installed correctly. Instead, this occurred on an older (previous generation) 737 airplane. The cause of this incident is that the door had not been closed properly prior to take-off. (original Dutch: "Er is geen enkel verband met de deurplugproblematiek van de 737 MAX 9: het gaat in dit geval om een 737 van de vorige generatie, waarbij de deur voor vertrek niet goed luchtdicht was afgesloten.")

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
They say that, but the doors are closed, cross checked and then the pilots would be alerted by a sensor if a door is open. So did three or four members of staff get this simple thing wrong or is the plane at fault?
- creshal 3y ago
  Are the door sensors redundant on the 737, or do the crew and pilot just check different readouts of the same?
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    One flight attendant physically closes and arms the door, so it is in automatic mode such that the slide will deploy if its opened, then a separate flight attendant physically checks that it is closed and armed. I have no information the sensor redundancy, but the physical checks are redundant.
littlestymaar 3y ago
How can a plane take off if the door isn't properly closed? How isn't there a detector, and a mechanism that just prevent the plane to even move if the door isn't closed. That's what trains do (and the earlier iteration of this design in train is decades old and really basic: on old trains there's a wire running through all doors which are acting as switches mounted in serial: if one is open, there's no current)

Aeolun 3y ago

This is such a weird way to write this: Bij het opstijgen van een Transavia-vlucht is vorige maand een deur van het toestel een beetje opengegaan Duing ascent of the Transavia flight, the door of the airplane opened a little bit (emphasis mine). What the hell, how does the door on your airplane open ‘a little bit’?

CafeRacer 3y ago

Ah, here we go again :-D

xp84 3y ago

Only going from the translation, this seems more likely to be a maintenance issue or crew error than another shocking quality problem, since I believe the 737-800 and -700s that they fly haven't been manufactured since at latest 2020, and their average age of their (Transavia's) 737 fleet is 13 years. As disappointing as it was watching the recent Wendover video breaking down the Boeing decline, this is probably not part of the story.