9 ms·

While that's true (and I do love Flask), PHP comes installed on every discount web host. Deploying a PHP app is as easy as using FTP, deploying a Python app ca

While that's true (and I do love Flask), PHP comes installed on every discount web host. Deploying a PHP app is as easy as using FTP, deploying a Python app can be -- but doesn't have to be -- complex. I'd say this is the bigger sticking point than the framework. Obviously Heroku and other PAAS providers are changing the game as far as deployment ease. It should be to see what happens in the next few years on that front.

espeed 14y ago
Deploying a PHP app is as easy as using FTP, deploying a Python app can be -- but doesn't have to be -- complex. Easy != Simple && Easy != Good See "Simple Made Easy" (http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy).
eevee 14y ago
It's a chicken-and-egg problem. Best I can do is encourage more people to write more Python software, so those crappy free hosts are more inclined to support running it. Until then, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to pay twenty bucks a month for a server to play with. That's less than AT&T wants to charge me for sending a thousand 160-byte messages.
- joering2 14y ago
  "crappy free hosts" ?
- espeed 14y ago
  Don't mess with "crappy free hosts" -- just run it on a free Heroku dyno (http://www.heroku.com/pricing http://www.heroku.com/pricing). Kenneth (http://kennethreitz.com http://kennethreitz.com) shows you can get good performance with Flask on the free dyno (http://flask.pocoo.org/mailinglist/archive/2012/2/22/flask-on-heroku-%2B-gunicorn-static-files/#cff05916ae6854557b93d0226cb87151 http://flask.pocoo.org/mailinglist/archive/2012/2/22/flask-o...).
  - eli 14y ago
    That's a fair bit more involved than "FTP files to my web host and they usually just work"
    - espeed 14y ago
      It's actually easier... $ git push heroku master
      - eli 14y ago
        Sure, well I would hope it's easy to do a one line deploy to any platform and with any language... once you set it up. You left out freezing requirements for pip, setting up cedar, etc. Nothing like that for a simple PHP app. I don't want to overstate the case; deploying Flask isn't hard, but deploying PHP is stupidly easy.
      - mkopinsky 14y ago
        As a Mercurial user who doesn't feel like learning git just for the sake of deploying toy Python apps, can anyone comment on whether hg-git or the like is a reasonable way of deploying to heroku?
        kenneth_reitz 14y ago
        It would add a bit of overhead, but you can certainly have mercurial at the center of your workflow via gh-git, yes.
      - mwexler 14y ago
        Of course, this assumes you are using Git in the first place, or are willing to learn it. Most folks already have FTP/ssh down pat, so git is a big jump from just copying files.
      - CJefferson 14y ago
        That is obviously not sufficent. For using PHP I literally have to tell people to open an ftp GUI client and drag+drop a folder, or do something like: sftp -r website user@host: So, what is the full "this is how you use heroku" I can send to a windows user, who knows HTML and wants to just get started with 'hello world'.

espeed 14y ago

Deploying a PHP app is as easy as using FTP, deploying a Python app can be -- but doesn't have to be -- complex. Easy != Simple && Easy != Good See "Simple Made Easy" (http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy).

eevee 14y ago

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. Best I can do is encourage more people to write more Python software, so those crappy free hosts are more inclined to support running it. Until then, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to pay twenty bucks a month for a server to play with. That's less than AT&T wants to charge me for sending a thousand 160-byte messages.

joering2 14y ago
"crappy free hosts" ?
espeed 14y ago
Don't mess with "crappy free hosts" -- just run it on a free Heroku dyno (http://www.heroku.com/pricing http://www.heroku.com/pricing). Kenneth (http://kennethreitz.com http://kennethreitz.com) shows you can get good performance with Flask on the free dyno (http://flask.pocoo.org/mailinglist/archive/2012/2/22/flask-on-heroku-%2B-gunicorn-static-files/#cff05916ae6854557b93d0226cb87151 http://flask.pocoo.org/mailinglist/archive/2012/2/22/flask-o...).
- eli 14y ago
  That's a fair bit more involved than "FTP files to my web host and they usually just work"
  - espeed 14y ago
    It's actually easier... $ git push heroku master
    - eli 14y ago
      Sure, well I would hope it's easy to do a one line deploy to any platform and with any language... once you set it up. You left out freezing requirements for pip, setting up cedar, etc. Nothing like that for a simple PHP app. I don't want to overstate the case; deploying Flask isn't hard, but deploying PHP is stupidly easy.
    - mkopinsky 14y ago
      As a Mercurial user who doesn't feel like learning git just for the sake of deploying toy Python apps, can anyone comment on whether hg-git or the like is a reasonable way of deploying to heroku?
      - kenneth_reitz 14y ago
        It would add a bit of overhead, but you can certainly have mercurial at the center of your workflow via gh-git, yes.
    - mwexler 14y ago
      Of course, this assumes you are using Git in the first place, or are willing to learn it. Most folks already have FTP/ssh down pat, so git is a big jump from just copying files.
    - CJefferson 14y ago
      That is obviously not sufficent. For using PHP I literally have to tell people to open an ftp GUI client and drag+drop a folder, or do something like: sftp -r website user@host: So, what is the full "this is how you use heroku" I can send to a windows user, who knows HTML and wants to just get started with 'hello world'.