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You know what is also anti-child? Having parents that were completely unprepared to be parents. Stop with this dopamine epidemic nonsense excuse for everything

You know what is also anti-child? Having parents that were completely unprepared to be parents. Stop with this dopamine epidemic nonsense excuse for everything that isn't working the way you want

echelon 3y ago
[flagged]
- zigman1 3y ago
  Recorded history you mean the history of domestic and emotional abuse, alcoholism, family disputes, lying and nromalised cheating? Then we are doing fine. Congratulations on your millions. My dad beat and cheat on my mother, and his dad beat and probably cheat my grandmother.
- vecinu 3y ago
  > Here I am, just fine, a self-made millionaire today. That says everything about how you view the world. "self-made". Nothing about how your adoptive father contributed, your peers or the entire society you grew up in. Something else I'd love to get away from is that having money != being a well adjusted individual.
- swells34 3y ago
  Are you aware that other people have provided everything you have in life, or have you really drunk the "self-made" Koolaid. Work the farm? Excellent, now one must purchase and run a farm in order to have children. How much do those cost? Oh, millions you say!? Wonderful.
- swells34 3y ago
  Ah yes, what I said was toxic because I would have to thank a lot of things for any success I had. Frankly, above a certain amount of income, no one has earned it. That's not toxic, it's just fact. You are welcome, my tax dollars have allowed you to become rich. I'm very glad you were as fortunate as you were, just remember to give back to the society which enabled your wealth!
  - echelon 3y ago
    > You are welcome, my tax dollars have allowed you to become rich. This has to be one of the most entitled things I've ever read. If you pick me out of this society and tax base and drop me into another, I will still be trying and working my ass off to accomplish my goals. That's my character. You have nothing to do with my success. Jupiter clearing our orbit, the evolution of Eukaryotes, capitalism, post-WWII tailwinds, and my hard work have more to do with my success than your tax dollars. Have you ever thanked your ancestors for eradicating Neanderthal, your mother for not sticking to her first dating prospects, or all those who died in wars so you can live in peace and comfort?
    - tgdude 3y ago
      I'll start by saying this isn't really directed at you. > Have you ever thanked your ancestors for eradicating Neanderthal, your mother for not sticking to her first dating prospects, or all those who died in wars so you can live in peace and comfort? More people should make it a practice to be grateful for the things that allow us to be successful, they'd be more content. I've never thanked Neanderthals but I do think about the choices and risks my ancestors took to ensure _they_ were successful. Personally I try to semi-regularly reflect on how I got to where I am and the factors that went into that. That includes thanking my mom and dad for their fuck ups as well as their good choices. It's been a humbling experience and long term day to day I'm happier and less isolated from the world.
    - skeaker 3y ago
      Sometimes when I notice a streetlamp come on in the afternoon, the complexity of it dawns on me. It's sturdy, well made. How would I ever roll that material up that way? How could I plant it into the ground so it stays standing? The material of it, where would I ever get the metal? The electricity, surely I would never have figured out how to make that, much less create whatever gargantuan distribution system that was required to turn the light on. And that it came on by itself at night: Is that a timer? A light sensor? Either way, were it up to me to make the thing from complete scratch, I doubt I would be able to crack it. The intellect of those that came before me gets almost overwhelming. How many lifetimes did it take to come up with all of this? How many to build it? And then I look down the street and see dozens more, so common that they are hardly noticed, and realize that I am in a world built on incomprehensible amounts of human ingenuity. I think about how if I were born even just a few decades sooner the world would be nearly unrecognizable to me. Once my mind hits this point, I find it impossible to feel anything but gratitude for the lifetimes laid before me to create the world I now inhabit.
- brushfoot 3y ago
  > My adoptive father shared an apartment with a roommate when I was in elementary school. Here I am, just fine My wife's mother beat and choked her from childhood. She was regularly told she was worthless and unwanted. Her father abandoned them, and her stepfather would whip her with clothes hangers for imagined infractions. Many people are in similar situations. The abuse may not always be physical or as extreme as what she endured, but many parents are unfit for parenthood, and their children suffer from the trauma or neglect or religious extremism for the rest of their lives to a greater or lesser degree. We don't always hear these stories because our social bubbles may comprise people who are more well adjusted, or at least present so. But abuse, infidelity, narcissism and so on are not new, and they aren't as rare as we might feel. And if those kinds of people didn't reproduce, that would be a good thing.
  - nicksrose7224 3y ago
    Are you saying it would have been a good thing for your wife's parents not to reproduce? Where would that leave her and you? (noted that childhood you described sounds awful, i agree)
    - loa_in_ 3y ago
      That's a philosophical question, but I would say probably better off. If that wouldn't have taken place, it means a lot of abuse around the world wouldn't either.
    - brushfoot 3y ago
      While my wife and I love each other, yes, it would have been better had they not had children -- for her sake, and this is her own feeling. Her trauma from childhood and young adulthood continues to affect her deeply and daily even now, decades later, in manifold ways, from complicated health issues to self-efficacy beliefs to frequent nightmares and constant fear about the future. When your own parent refuses to give you food, faith that everything will work out in the end can be hard to cultivate. Personally, selfishly, the thought of my life without her is depressing, absolutely. But I can love her and yet -- or more precisely, "and so," because it's out of empathy that I feel this way -- I can understand and support her desire never to have existed.
- brushfoot 3y ago
  > Maybe it'd thrill you to know I haven't heard or spoken to that person in over twenty years, and that he abused me? You being a millionaire doesn't mean you aren't still dealing with that trauma. Some people internalize their abuse, forcing themselves to ever-higher levels of achievement to try to be worthy of the love they never received. Your dismissals of parenting concerns are borderline emotionally abusive in themselves, gaslighting others' experiences by repeatedly claiming that things are "just fine" on the whole. For many people, things are not just fine, and not having children is a valid response to that, and an empathetic one.

You know what is also anti-child? Having parents that were completely unprepared to be parents. Stop with this dopamine epidemic nonsense excuse for everything that isn't working the way you want

echelon 3y ago

[flagged]

zigman1 3y ago
Recorded history you mean the history of domestic and emotional abuse, alcoholism, family disputes, lying and nromalised cheating? Then we are doing fine. Congratulations on your millions. My dad beat and cheat on my mother, and his dad beat and probably cheat my grandmother.
vecinu 3y ago
> Here I am, just fine, a self-made millionaire today. That says everything about how you view the world. "self-made". Nothing about how your adoptive father contributed, your peers or the entire society you grew up in. Something else I'd love to get away from is that having money != being a well adjusted individual.
swells34 3y ago
Are you aware that other people have provided everything you have in life, or have you really drunk the "self-made" Koolaid. Work the farm? Excellent, now one must purchase and run a farm in order to have children. How much do those cost? Oh, millions you say!? Wonderful.
swells34 3y ago
Ah yes, what I said was toxic because I would have to thank a lot of things for any success I had. Frankly, above a certain amount of income, no one has earned it. That's not toxic, it's just fact. You are welcome, my tax dollars have allowed you to become rich. I'm very glad you were as fortunate as you were, just remember to give back to the society which enabled your wealth!
- echelon 3y ago
  > You are welcome, my tax dollars have allowed you to become rich. This has to be one of the most entitled things I've ever read. If you pick me out of this society and tax base and drop me into another, I will still be trying and working my ass off to accomplish my goals. That's my character. You have nothing to do with my success. Jupiter clearing our orbit, the evolution of Eukaryotes, capitalism, post-WWII tailwinds, and my hard work have more to do with my success than your tax dollars. Have you ever thanked your ancestors for eradicating Neanderthal, your mother for not sticking to her first dating prospects, or all those who died in wars so you can live in peace and comfort?
  - tgdude 3y ago
    I'll start by saying this isn't really directed at you. > Have you ever thanked your ancestors for eradicating Neanderthal, your mother for not sticking to her first dating prospects, or all those who died in wars so you can live in peace and comfort? More people should make it a practice to be grateful for the things that allow us to be successful, they'd be more content. I've never thanked Neanderthals but I do think about the choices and risks my ancestors took to ensure _they_ were successful. Personally I try to semi-regularly reflect on how I got to where I am and the factors that went into that. That includes thanking my mom and dad for their fuck ups as well as their good choices. It's been a humbling experience and long term day to day I'm happier and less isolated from the world.
  - skeaker 3y ago
    Sometimes when I notice a streetlamp come on in the afternoon, the complexity of it dawns on me. It's sturdy, well made. How would I ever roll that material up that way? How could I plant it into the ground so it stays standing? The material of it, where would I ever get the metal? The electricity, surely I would never have figured out how to make that, much less create whatever gargantuan distribution system that was required to turn the light on. And that it came on by itself at night: Is that a timer? A light sensor? Either way, were it up to me to make the thing from complete scratch, I doubt I would be able to crack it. The intellect of those that came before me gets almost overwhelming. How many lifetimes did it take to come up with all of this? How many to build it? And then I look down the street and see dozens more, so common that they are hardly noticed, and realize that I am in a world built on incomprehensible amounts of human ingenuity. I think about how if I were born even just a few decades sooner the world would be nearly unrecognizable to me. Once my mind hits this point, I find it impossible to feel anything but gratitude for the lifetimes laid before me to create the world I now inhabit.
brushfoot 3y ago
> My adoptive father shared an apartment with a roommate when I was in elementary school. Here I am, just fine My wife's mother beat and choked her from childhood. She was regularly told she was worthless and unwanted. Her father abandoned them, and her stepfather would whip her with clothes hangers for imagined infractions. Many people are in similar situations. The abuse may not always be physical or as extreme as what she endured, but many parents are unfit for parenthood, and their children suffer from the trauma or neglect or religious extremism for the rest of their lives to a greater or lesser degree. We don't always hear these stories because our social bubbles may comprise people who are more well adjusted, or at least present so. But abuse, infidelity, narcissism and so on are not new, and they aren't as rare as we might feel. And if those kinds of people didn't reproduce, that would be a good thing.
- nicksrose7224 3y ago
  Are you saying it would have been a good thing for your wife's parents not to reproduce? Where would that leave her and you? (noted that childhood you described sounds awful, i agree)
  - loa_in_ 3y ago
    That's a philosophical question, but I would say probably better off. If that wouldn't have taken place, it means a lot of abuse around the world wouldn't either.
  - brushfoot 3y ago
    While my wife and I love each other, yes, it would have been better had they not had children -- for her sake, and this is her own feeling. Her trauma from childhood and young adulthood continues to affect her deeply and daily even now, decades later, in manifold ways, from complicated health issues to self-efficacy beliefs to frequent nightmares and constant fear about the future. When your own parent refuses to give you food, faith that everything will work out in the end can be hard to cultivate. Personally, selfishly, the thought of my life without her is depressing, absolutely. But I can love her and yet -- or more precisely, "and so," because it's out of empathy that I feel this way -- I can understand and support her desire never to have existed.
brushfoot 3y ago
> Maybe it'd thrill you to know I haven't heard or spoken to that person in over twenty years, and that he abused me? You being a millionaire doesn't mean you aren't still dealing with that trauma. Some people internalize their abuse, forcing themselves to ever-higher levels of achievement to try to be worthy of the love they never received. Your dismissals of parenting concerns are borderline emotionally abusive in themselves, gaslighting others' experiences by repeatedly claiming that things are "just fine" on the whole. For many people, things are not just fine, and not having children is a valid response to that, and an empathetic one.