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My father had 10 siblings and my mother had seven. I had seven siblings myself with over 30 cousins on both sides of my family. I have four children and my and

My father had 10 siblings and my mother had seven. I had seven siblings myself with over 30 cousins on both sides of my family. I have four children and my and most of my siblings each have six children or so. My mother has about 24 grandkids at the last count Maybe. Further, I live on the same street as two of my sisters and I have another sister that lives down the street, with my brother living 3 mi away. Only two siblings live out of town. My children routinely play with and enjoy being with their cousins. My daughter has a hard time making friends but she says it's okay because at least she has her cousins. I have had a very rich experience with many of my cousins and I think these cousins are growing up even closer together both physically and emotionally. Would highly recommend the lifestyle. Large families are such a blessing when you get older. Kids are an awful lot of work for the first about 10 years but boy are they awesome every year after that. When my grandmother is interacting with her children and grandchildren at reunions it's like she's holding court, the queen of an empire.

toasterlovin 3y ago
You have to be religious, right? This is the dream for us. We reverted to Catholicism after it became apparent that the secular world was incompatible with us, then eventually found our way to a high fertility parish. It’s incredible. Kids everywhere. Average family size is 5-6 kids. Really hoping our kids choose to remain in this lifestyle and we get to enjoy dozens of grandkids.
- pinkmuffinere 3y ago
  I initially read this comment to mean “we wanted larger family, the secular world doesn’t do that, we became religious and we’re happy”. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, this strikes me as a very novel argument in favor of religion, and is more convincing to me than most others. I do wonder what I’d say if/when people question the fervor of my belief though, if I truly converted just for a community with larger families. I imagine “I believe in big families” wouldn’t cut it.
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    > I do wonder what I’d say if/when people question the fervor of my belief though, if I truly converted just for a community with larger families. I imagine “I believe in big families” wouldn’t cut it. There's nothing wrong with that. Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer.
    - mihalycsaba 3y ago
      People just want to be part of a community. Most of the time the only available open communities are church communities, so that's better than nothing.
      - shepherdjerred 3y ago
        Yes, I totally agree. I'm simply saying that you don't have to be uber religious to be a part of a church community. A good church should make you feel accepted no matter who you are. There are perhaps exceptions, e.g. if you are intentionally trying to harm the church or members of it, but otherwise the church should accept you as you are -- "true" believer or not. In practice you will probably find a lot of "bad" churches, so you'll probably have to shop around a little bit.
    - pinkmuffinere 3y ago
      > Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer. I really appreciate this view, but certainly some people do have a problem with it. I think it would be especially awkward if you spend a significant amount of your life there, raise kids, etc, but never claim the religion is true. It almost sounds like a cringe-comedy movie
      - shepherdjerred 3y ago
        If your values and actions align with the religious community, and you're okay being around people who are religious/spiritual, I believe it can be mutually beneficial. If your values and actions don't align with the religious community, then you should still be accepted, but if you don't have belief, then it's unlikely you'll stay for long. ^ note: by "should" I mean that, at least in my view, a "real" Christian should be accepting and not judge others. In practice nobody lives up to this, but it can at least inform how you should feel, e.g. if you feel judged it's saying more about others than it says about you. ^ double note: "real" Christian is incredibly hard to define. The Bible can be interpreted any way you want. Ultimately what guides me is trying to do what I think is right, using the Bible as one source of information.
- tlivolsi 3y ago
  I take it you attend a FSSP or ICKSP church?
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    Naw, just a reverent parish. Mix of English and Latin. Somewhat conservative, but not super conservative.
- incompatible 3y ago
  Not necessarily. My parents also both have quite a few siblings, and aren't particularly religious. They were born in the 1930s when it wasn't unusual. I may have a couple of dozen first cousins, I don't really know, but they are geographically distant. I haven't met one since childhood, and I can't remember getting along with them very well.
- djha-skin 3y ago
  Yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
- up_o 3y ago
  this is a funny question. Avoiding tangents, for all intents and purposes, I'm secular. Though I've only had two children with no intention of having more, I was raised Southern Baptist, the oldest of six. I love our big family. My mother was one of seven, and all her siblings have many children as well. I look back fondly on our holiday gatherings and miss them dearly. my aunts were guardian angels through so many difficult times. But as much as I want those big family gatherings and the overall dynamic, I couldn't imagine going back to Southern Baptism as a means to see them perpetuated. It would be nice if there were a natalist "movement" (for lack of better word) that was more or less secular (without being self-aggrandizing and delusional ala effective altruism).
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    Yeah, wanting a secular natalist movement is where I was for a while. But then the truth of it hits you at some point: it will never exist. The secular way of life exalts the individual, but raising a large family is about subduing your own desires and devoting yourself to something more important than yourself. Well, guess who already does that: religious people.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      > The secular way of life exalts the individual Wow, that is not my experience at all. I think in some ways that's perhaps a very US-centric view, even though I'd still consider that a flawed way at looking at secularism in the US. Most of the developed world is fairly secular (even among those with religious beliefs), and extreme individualism is not as common as you seem to think. I do wonder how common your attitude is among religious people, though. If it's common, that would explain a few things...
      - cooper_ganglia 3y ago
        I was raised in a very religious household, but I left the fairly young. I spent the next couple decades around a large amount of both religious and secular people. It’s been my anecdotal experience that religious people are exponentially more likely to volunteer and donate to help others. I’ve seen yards cleaned, homes rebuilt, soup kitchens hosted, mobile laundry services and free shoes/clothes for the homeless, church closet giveaways (basically a free yard sale for the community), hundreds of doctors filling a convention center volunteering their time and money to treat people for free,… I don’t doubt non-religious people are doing these things, but I don’t think it’s at the same scale, and the secular nonprofits that are offering this kind of help often skim a lot off the top to pay beefy corporate salaries.
- throw_siblings 3y ago
  Err, yeah I'm a little skeptical of parents who want lots of children. I'm in my twenties now, but I was raised Catholic, I have twelve siblings, and I was homeschooled until my senior year. There were several issues: - Me and my siblings all feel like our parents loved the "identity" of being parents and having lots of children, but when it came down to the brass tax of actually caring for our emotional needs, they were entirely absent. This was such a large rift that almost all of us intentionally don't have close relationships with our parents. - On top of emotional neglect, there was inevitable physical neglect. One brother clearly had autism but our parents never had the time or finances to get him treated appropriately. Two siblings weren't able to get the braces they needed for their teeth as kids and had to get jaw surgery as adults. Two of my siblings were injured in severe accidents growing up that would've been avoided if a parent had been watching out. - The parents of these families go around narcissistically glowing with all the social credit for being "superhero parents" when realistically the majority of the labor falls upon the oldest siblings. Me and my two sisters effectively raised all of our younger siblings with our mother being pregnant so often, and father working full-time. Our parents never recognized how much work we put in, and as we transitioned to adulthood it took a lot of work to establish healthy relationships with our younger siblings where we didn't feel taken advantage of (the younger siblings had parental expectations of us for years afterward). - The lack of socialization from being homeschooled really came back to bite us in the ass. Some of my siblings got (cyber) bullied after transitioning to the real world. Some simply never were able to make the adjustment to talking to normal people, and some are still really struggling. I was able to get "socialized" and now appear like a normal SWE at a large tech company but I'm very lucky. So....be very careful around these families and their values. A lot of times having lots of kids are a narcisstic vision from the parents, rather than a true desire to take care of a lot of people.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    *brass tacks, but I like this take on it too
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    Yeah, that's def not our plan (nor is it even possible at this point). But, for what it's worth, I don't see many families with > 6-7 kids, so I think your notion of what is meant by "want a lot of kids" is skewed by your experience.
- 698969 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, what is the ballpark of your and your spouse's income and net worth?
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    I’m game but tell me your hypothesis first.
    - 698969 3y ago
      No hypothesis, just trying to gauge at what point could/would someone willingly consider that lifestyle.
      - toasterlovin 3y ago
        I'm not sure money really matters that much. Most of our friends are well-educated but solidly middle class. If two income families were more common, then most of them would probably be upper middle class. Our family is upper middle class. I am self employed but don't have significant net worth other than my business.
kubb 3y ago
It’s awesome if you can afford it. I wouldn’t mind having 3 kids if each one of them could have their own space in the house, if I could help them develop life skills, and give them all the love and time they need. With large families it feels like many of the children are neglected. In a modern world either you don’t have the money or you don’t have the time.
- ip26 3y ago
  Time doesn't scale. If you have eight kids and a full time job out of the home, it will be incredibly difficult to deeply get to know, support, etc them as individuals. A common observation is that in families with that many kids, the older kids raise the younger kids. It probably functions much better if everyone works together in a family business.
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
OP is definitely Mormon. Many, many friends of mine come from Mormon families (for better or for worse)
- evulhotdog 3y ago
  OP commented, confirming that they were Mormon.
paulryanrogers 3y ago
So basically you want your older kids to raise the younger ones, and have little choice in the matter?

toasterlovin 3y ago

You have to be religious, right? This is the dream for us. We reverted to Catholicism after it became apparent that the secular world was incompatible with us, then eventually found our way to a high fertility parish. It’s incredible. Kids everywhere. Average family size is 5-6 kids. Really hoping our kids choose to remain in this lifestyle and we get to enjoy dozens of grandkids.

pinkmuffinere 3y ago
I initially read this comment to mean “we wanted larger family, the secular world doesn’t do that, we became religious and we’re happy”. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, this strikes me as a very novel argument in favor of religion, and is more convincing to me than most others. I do wonder what I’d say if/when people question the fervor of my belief though, if I truly converted just for a community with larger families. I imagine “I believe in big families” wouldn’t cut it.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  > I do wonder what I’d say if/when people question the fervor of my belief though, if I truly converted just for a community with larger families. I imagine “I believe in big families” wouldn’t cut it. There's nothing wrong with that. Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer.
  - mihalycsaba 3y ago
    People just want to be part of a community. Most of the time the only available open communities are church communities, so that's better than nothing.
    - shepherdjerred 3y ago
      Yes, I totally agree. I'm simply saying that you don't have to be uber religious to be a part of a church community. A good church should make you feel accepted no matter who you are. There are perhaps exceptions, e.g. if you are intentionally trying to harm the church or members of it, but otherwise the church should accept you as you are -- "true" believer or not. In practice you will probably find a lot of "bad" churches, so you'll probably have to shop around a little bit.
  - pinkmuffinere 3y ago
    > Nobody should have a problem with you wanting to be a part of a church community, even if you aren't a "real" believer. I really appreciate this view, but certainly some people do have a problem with it. I think it would be especially awkward if you spend a significant amount of your life there, raise kids, etc, but never claim the religion is true. It almost sounds like a cringe-comedy movie
    - shepherdjerred 3y ago
      If your values and actions align with the religious community, and you're okay being around people who are religious/spiritual, I believe it can be mutually beneficial. If your values and actions don't align with the religious community, then you should still be accepted, but if you don't have belief, then it's unlikely you'll stay for long. ^ note: by "should" I mean that, at least in my view, a "real" Christian should be accepting and not judge others. In practice nobody lives up to this, but it can at least inform how you should feel, e.g. if you feel judged it's saying more about others than it says about you. ^ double note: "real" Christian is incredibly hard to define. The Bible can be interpreted any way you want. Ultimately what guides me is trying to do what I think is right, using the Bible as one source of information.
tlivolsi 3y ago
I take it you attend a FSSP or ICKSP church?
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  Naw, just a reverent parish. Mix of English and Latin. Somewhat conservative, but not super conservative.
incompatible 3y ago
Not necessarily. My parents also both have quite a few siblings, and aren't particularly religious. They were born in the 1930s when it wasn't unusual. I may have a couple of dozen first cousins, I don't really know, but they are geographically distant. I haven't met one since childhood, and I can't remember getting along with them very well.
djha-skin 3y ago
Yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
up_o 3y ago
this is a funny question. Avoiding tangents, for all intents and purposes, I'm secular. Though I've only had two children with no intention of having more, I was raised Southern Baptist, the oldest of six. I love our big family. My mother was one of seven, and all her siblings have many children as well. I look back fondly on our holiday gatherings and miss them dearly. my aunts were guardian angels through so many difficult times. But as much as I want those big family gatherings and the overall dynamic, I couldn't imagine going back to Southern Baptism as a means to see them perpetuated. It would be nice if there were a natalist "movement" (for lack of better word) that was more or less secular (without being self-aggrandizing and delusional ala effective altruism).
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  Yeah, wanting a secular natalist movement is where I was for a while. But then the truth of it hits you at some point: it will never exist. The secular way of life exalts the individual, but raising a large family is about subduing your own desires and devoting yourself to something more important than yourself. Well, guess who already does that: religious people.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    > The secular way of life exalts the individual Wow, that is not my experience at all. I think in some ways that's perhaps a very US-centric view, even though I'd still consider that a flawed way at looking at secularism in the US. Most of the developed world is fairly secular (even among those with religious beliefs), and extreme individualism is not as common as you seem to think. I do wonder how common your attitude is among religious people, though. If it's common, that would explain a few things...
    - cooper_ganglia 3y ago
      I was raised in a very religious household, but I left the fairly young. I spent the next couple decades around a large amount of both religious and secular people. It’s been my anecdotal experience that religious people are exponentially more likely to volunteer and donate to help others. I’ve seen yards cleaned, homes rebuilt, soup kitchens hosted, mobile laundry services and free shoes/clothes for the homeless, church closet giveaways (basically a free yard sale for the community), hundreds of doctors filling a convention center volunteering their time and money to treat people for free,… I don’t doubt non-religious people are doing these things, but I don’t think it’s at the same scale, and the secular nonprofits that are offering this kind of help often skim a lot off the top to pay beefy corporate salaries.
throw_siblings 3y ago
Err, yeah I'm a little skeptical of parents who want lots of children. I'm in my twenties now, but I was raised Catholic, I have twelve siblings, and I was homeschooled until my senior year. There were several issues: - Me and my siblings all feel like our parents loved the "identity" of being parents and having lots of children, but when it came down to the brass tax of actually caring for our emotional needs, they were entirely absent. This was such a large rift that almost all of us intentionally don't have close relationships with our parents. - On top of emotional neglect, there was inevitable physical neglect. One brother clearly had autism but our parents never had the time or finances to get him treated appropriately. Two siblings weren't able to get the braces they needed for their teeth as kids and had to get jaw surgery as adults. Two of my siblings were injured in severe accidents growing up that would've been avoided if a parent had been watching out. - The parents of these families go around narcissistically glowing with all the social credit for being "superhero parents" when realistically the majority of the labor falls upon the oldest siblings. Me and my two sisters effectively raised all of our younger siblings with our mother being pregnant so often, and father working full-time. Our parents never recognized how much work we put in, and as we transitioned to adulthood it took a lot of work to establish healthy relationships with our younger siblings where we didn't feel taken advantage of (the younger siblings had parental expectations of us for years afterward). - The lack of socialization from being homeschooled really came back to bite us in the ass. Some of my siblings got (cyber) bullied after transitioning to the real world. Some simply never were able to make the adjustment to talking to normal people, and some are still really struggling. I was able to get "socialized" and now appear like a normal SWE at a large tech company but I'm very lucky. So....be very careful around these families and their values. A lot of times having lots of kids are a narcisstic vision from the parents, rather than a true desire to take care of a lot of people.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  *brass tacks, but I like this take on it too
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  Yeah, that's def not our plan (nor is it even possible at this point). But, for what it's worth, I don't see many families with > 6-7 kids, so I think your notion of what is meant by "want a lot of kids" is skewed by your experience.
698969 3y ago
Out of curiosity, what is the ballpark of your and your spouse's income and net worth?
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  I’m game but tell me your hypothesis first.
  - 698969 3y ago
    No hypothesis, just trying to gauge at what point could/would someone willingly consider that lifestyle.
    - toasterlovin 3y ago
      I'm not sure money really matters that much. Most of our friends are well-educated but solidly middle class. If two income families were more common, then most of them would probably be upper middle class. Our family is upper middle class. I am self employed but don't have significant net worth other than my business.

kubb 3y ago

It’s awesome if you can afford it. I wouldn’t mind having 3 kids if each one of them could have their own space in the house, if I could help them develop life skills, and give them all the love and time they need. With large families it feels like many of the children are neglected. In a modern world either you don’t have the money or you don’t have the time.

ip26 3y ago
Time doesn't scale. If you have eight kids and a full time job out of the home, it will be incredibly difficult to deeply get to know, support, etc them as individuals. A common observation is that in families with that many kids, the older kids raise the younger kids. It probably functions much better if everyone works together in a family business.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

OP is definitely Mormon. Many, many friends of mine come from Mormon families (for better or for worse)

evulhotdog 3y ago
OP commented, confirming that they were Mormon.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

So basically you want your older kids to raise the younger ones, and have little choice in the matter?