2 ms·

> that's post-tax, because our politicians love talking about the problems but no solutions in sight Maybe you don't have a solution "in sight" because by eli

by ajross 3y ago

> that's post-tax, because our politicians love talking about the problems but no solutions in sight Maybe you don't have a solution "in sight" because by eliminating tax analysis you're conspicuously skipping the Child Tax Credit[1], which is pretty clearly aimed right at this issue. It doesn't make children into a revenue source or anything, but it's a real and tangible action taken by "our politicians" to address exactly the problem you claim they're ignoring. [1] Also the Child and Dependent Care Credit, also any of the various state policies in the same realm, also the deductability of child care expenses, etc... Basically tax policy IS THE MECHANISM by which government tries to address this problem. And you totally missed it!

schnable 3y ago
And many employers offer Flex Savings Accounts for child/dependent care, which I believe are capped at $5,000 per year. So the child tax care credit is $2,000 cash for each kid, then $5,000 of your child care costs are pre-tax. Criticize that all you want, but why lie about it? Or be ignorant and sanctimonious?
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
What is sad about the child care credit: it’s like half the cost of one kid, and doesn’t scale with the number of kids you have. So ya, it saves you ~$1k-1.5K year in taxes, it’s kind of useless.
- ajross 3y ago
  How is a thousand dollars "useless"? I'll take it if you don't want it. Again, the point is to make having children less expensive, not to hire people to have kids. There's room for argument for what the right kind and amount of public assistance for child rearing should be. But blanket statements like "useless" (or no "solution in sight" upthread) seem ridiculous. Clearly there's useful aid for parents in the modern US.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Oh it’s fine. But it would still be $1500 or so if I had a second kid, or a third. It’s also like 15% of my overall yearly childcare expenses for one kid who is already in elementary school (and was much less when was in preschool). Just increase the child tax credit by $1500 and be done with it.
  - scruple 3y ago
    We have 3 kids in daycare right now so you'll really just have to forgive me for also finding it essentially useless. It's less than 1/36th of our annual childcare expenses. It's not like I'm going to turn it down but if it went away I would not even notice.
    - ajross 3y ago
      > We have 3 kids in daycare right now so you'll really just have to forgive me for also finding it essentially useless. It's less than 1/36th of our annual childcare expenses The credit is $2k per kid, plus a $6k cap for the CADC credit. If you're spending $144k on care[1] this credit isn't for you. That's just ridiculous. Don't ask the federal government to pay you a 4x urban minimum wage just to have kids, that's not a good use of my tax dollars (and I say that as a fellow parent). But a few thousand dollars to help out folks on the margin can absolutely keep people in the workforce and out of poverty. Just don't expect your boutique day care in Sunnyvale or whatever to be a free ride. [1] You clearly aren't. You're just confused about the generosity of this benefit, or more likely make too much and are on the phase-out schedule for high income taxpayers.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        The DCFSA is tax free contribute, so you are only saving taxes, not the entire amount of the benefit. But I see you are talking about other things? The CADC goes down based on income, and I think it is superseded by the DCFSA at higher incomes, although that magic always alludes me in TurboTax.
        3y ago

by ajross 3y ago

schnable 3y ago

And many employers offer Flex Savings Accounts for child/dependent care, which I believe are capped at $5,000 per year. So the child tax care credit is $2,000 cash for each kid, then $5,000 of your child care costs are pre-tax. Criticize that all you want, but why lie about it? Or be ignorant and sanctimonious?

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

What is sad about the child care credit: it’s like half the cost of one kid, and doesn’t scale with the number of kids you have. So ya, it saves you ~$1k-1.5K year in taxes, it’s kind of useless.

ajross 3y ago
How is a thousand dollars "useless"? I'll take it if you don't want it. Again, the point is to make having children less expensive, not to hire people to have kids. There's room for argument for what the right kind and amount of public assistance for child rearing should be. But blanket statements like "useless" (or no "solution in sight" upthread) seem ridiculous. Clearly there's useful aid for parents in the modern US.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Oh it’s fine. But it would still be $1500 or so if I had a second kid, or a third. It’s also like 15% of my overall yearly childcare expenses for one kid who is already in elementary school (and was much less when was in preschool). Just increase the child tax credit by $1500 and be done with it.
- scruple 3y ago
  We have 3 kids in daycare right now so you'll really just have to forgive me for also finding it essentially useless. It's less than 1/36th of our annual childcare expenses. It's not like I'm going to turn it down but if it went away I would not even notice.
  - ajross 3y ago
    > We have 3 kids in daycare right now so you'll really just have to forgive me for also finding it essentially useless. It's less than 1/36th of our annual childcare expenses The credit is $2k per kid, plus a $6k cap for the CADC credit. If you're spending $144k on care[1] this credit isn't for you. That's just ridiculous. Don't ask the federal government to pay you a 4x urban minimum wage just to have kids, that's not a good use of my tax dollars (and I say that as a fellow parent). But a few thousand dollars to help out folks on the margin can absolutely keep people in the workforce and out of poverty. Just don't expect your boutique day care in Sunnyvale or whatever to be a free ride. [1] You clearly aren't. You're just confused about the generosity of this benefit, or more likely make too much and are on the phase-out schedule for high income taxpayers.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      The DCFSA is tax free contribute, so you are only saving taxes, not the entire amount of the benefit. But I see you are talking about other things? The CADC goes down based on income, and I think it is superseded by the DCFSA at higher incomes, although that magic always alludes me in TurboTax.
      - 3y ago