4 ms·

Why does it matter? Salaries should depend on the value you deliver. I don't think companies limit their profits depending on the location. Apple devices are of

by tock 3y ago

Why does it matter? Salaries should depend on the value you deliver. I don't think companies limit their profits depending on the location. Apple devices are often more expensive outside the US.

mejutoco 3y ago
While I can empathize with this, this is a moral judgement. Price is not determined by fairness, but by offer and demand (and other factors). Otherwise teachers might earn more than football players. I think one could argue they should.
- tock 3y ago
  I agree. It's just supply and demand. I just disagree with people saying salaries are somehow pegged to living standards. No it isn't. Companies don't care about your living standards. They pay what the market commands thats all.
intothemild 3y ago
Whilst we all want SF wages, those wages are because housing and cost of living in SF are exceptionally high compared to say Bali. So you want to earn 200,000 USD. Whilst living in a part of the world where that effectively places you in the top 1% of earners. You're only looking at this from that angle. What about the person who's living in SF, and scrapes by paycheck to paycheck. Whilst you live in a much cheaper area to live in, and you have a very different financial situation. Your both paid the same wage.. because "fairness". You might say, "JUST MOVE". But do you think that's a fair thing to tell someone? Sure people move to places like SF, but people do that for more than money, they do it for a variety of reasons. And one of them is that there's a lot of demand in that area for your talents. So if you wanted to change jobs, grow your career, etc.. you can. But that area has a higher cost of living. You sacrifice some of those things when you move to the small country town, there's no tech hub. No meetups, nothing. So do you think it's still fair to say to that person "Hey I know you're living hard... But at least you can spend that little money you have left on public transport getting to a meetup!". Whilst the person living in the middle of nowhere can afford first class.
- tock 3y ago
  I get what you are trying to say. I'm one of those people who makes that kind of money in a cheap country. I'm just saying its fair from a value delivered perspective. Paying you less doesn't mean the company donates the money saved to a charity. It just goes to the companies balance sheet. I've had plenty of arguments with company exec's about this: 1. its not fair you get to live like a king! -> would you move here to live like "a king"? Oh you don't want to deal with the pollution and the bureaucracy and lack of safety. Ok. Ah so there is a cost I am paying by living in a bad country. 2. paying you SF salaries would be unfair to people living around you -> ok so you would be ok paying that extra amount directly to a charity right? Oh ok you aren't. I'm saying it's only fair for a employee to think they should be paid proportional to the value delivered. Companies exist to make more money. This causes a clash. In my last company the CEO specifically wouldn't hire staff engineers from cheap countries because he didn't want to give the other engineers the idea that they too can command higher wages. Just pay people the same amount and let them decide how to live their lives. They are adults.

by tock 3y ago

Why does it matter? Salaries should depend on the value you deliver. I don't think companies limit their profits depending on the location. Apple devices are often more expensive outside the US.

mejutoco 3y ago

While I can empathize with this, this is a moral judgement. Price is not determined by fairness, but by offer and demand (and other factors). Otherwise teachers might earn more than football players. I think one could argue they should.

tock 3y ago
I agree. It's just supply and demand. I just disagree with people saying salaries are somehow pegged to living standards. No it isn't. Companies don't care about your living standards. They pay what the market commands thats all.

intothemild 3y ago

Whilst we all want SF wages, those wages are because housing and cost of living in SF are exceptionally high compared to say Bali. So you want to earn 200,000 USD. Whilst living in a part of the world where that effectively places you in the top 1% of earners. You're only looking at this from that angle. What about the person who's living in SF, and scrapes by paycheck to paycheck. Whilst you live in a much cheaper area to live in, and you have a very different financial situation. Your both paid the same wage.. because "fairness". You might say, "JUST MOVE". But do you think that's a fair thing to tell someone? Sure people move to places like SF, but people do that for more than money, they do it for a variety of reasons. And one of them is that there's a lot of demand in that area for your talents. So if you wanted to change jobs, grow your career, etc.. you can. But that area has a higher cost of living. You sacrifice some of those things when you move to the small country town, there's no tech hub. No meetups, nothing. So do you think it's still fair to say to that person "Hey I know you're living hard... But at least you can spend that little money you have left on public transport getting to a meetup!". Whilst the person living in the middle of nowhere can afford first class.

tock 3y ago
I get what you are trying to say. I'm one of those people who makes that kind of money in a cheap country. I'm just saying its fair from a value delivered perspective. Paying you less doesn't mean the company donates the money saved to a charity. It just goes to the companies balance sheet. I've had plenty of arguments with company exec's about this: 1. its not fair you get to live like a king! -> would you move here to live like "a king"? Oh you don't want to deal with the pollution and the bureaucracy and lack of safety. Ok. Ah so there is a cost I am paying by living in a bad country. 2. paying you SF salaries would be unfair to people living around you -> ok so you would be ok paying that extra amount directly to a charity right? Oh ok you aren't. I'm saying it's only fair for a employee to think they should be paid proportional to the value delivered. Companies exist to make more money. This causes a clash. In my last company the CEO specifically wouldn't hire staff engineers from cheap countries because he didn't want to give the other engineers the idea that they too can command higher wages. Just pay people the same amount and let them decide how to live their lives. They are adults.