5 ms·

You aren't entitled to other people's time. You should try to earn it by doing something together with people that both enjoy. I volunteer at a cat shelter for

You aren't entitled to other people's time. You should try to earn it by doing something together with people that both enjoy. I volunteer at a cat shelter for instance. Feed some cats, play with the kittens then shoot the shit with the other volunteers.

throwanem 3y ago
I never understand where it comes from, this idea that an unplanned social interaction in public necessarily constitutes one person choosing to waste the time of others, or that no one ever has any choice but to let an unwelcome interaction persist indefinitely. It gives the impression of a somewhat socially impoverished style of life, but I assume that's no more accurate a perspective than anyone else's.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  I think this opinion differs both geographically and generationally. Uban/young/northern people are less apt to want to socialize with strangers. Neither preference is inherently wrong I tend to think the strangers you are discussing know better than you what is or isn't a waste of their own time. For practical purposes most folks just aren't apt to have anything useful to contribute in 3 minutes. I'm 43 and I don't think I have EVER got anything useful out of such an interaction. It's just pure social petting like monkey's picking bugs off one another and I don't get anything out of it nor feel obligated to do it when walking around. I don't feel socially impoverished because I have actual social interactions in contexts which I feel are useful or beneficial. My theory is the people that have more need of such social petting are aggrieved at changing social standards. It's just not my problem.
  - throwanem 3y ago
    "Like monkeys picking bugs off one another" is a hell of a thing for a hominin to say. I take your point about geography and generational change, and I don't think you're wrong, but I'm also not at all convinced this is a healthy habit for a species remarkably social even among primates.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Social grooming is great for group cohesion. But that's others you know, not total strangers. Monkeys don't have to constantly deal with strangers.
      - throwanem 3y ago
        Last I checked at least, monkeys also don't build cities.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        You can learn how to build a city. You can't learn how to build acquaintances with everyone in that city.
        throwanem 3y ago
        I'm not sure how to address the idea that prior acquaintance is a requirement for speaking to anyone, or being spoken to. I remain unconvinced this is other than an impoverished way of looking at the world. If anything, it seems much more to me now also a self-impoverishing one.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        That's not the claim, the claim is that "prior acquaintance" is a pretty big part of social grooming. I'm just saying to be slow to use monkey habits as a reference when critical pieces are so different. I'm not particularly arguing about what humans should do. Merely pointing out that the human situation is more unique than previously implied.
        throwanem 3y ago
        I didn't introduce the figure, only riffed on it to try to make my point more clear. If it's become a distraction, we should indeed discard it. That said, unique or no, I don't think a situation in which no one is willing to speak to or be spoken to by anyone they don't recognize is one that's especially ordinary for this species either. Certainly it has been anything but in my lifetime, and not only for happening to grow up in a place that wasn't Boston or Seattle. One of the things I've loved about Baltimore for the quarter century I've lived here has been exactly that it differed in this, but lately that hasn't seemed very much to be the case, and that bothers me, especially to see happen in such a relatively short time. I'm not inclined to haste in accepting it as normal, especially in the wake of a pandemic that seems to have significantly accelerated a process of cultural disintegration in at least the US. Things were not like this at all five years ago, and it legitimately frightens me that people seem to struggle to remember that, because it means I have to wonder what else may have come to be thought normal five years hence.
lloeki 3y ago
If I go to a cat shelter it's to help cats and interact with cats, how dare you steal that time from me with your simiesque jibberjabber! There's nothing specific to any context† that would let presuppose that anyone's up for socialisation. The only thing in common is that two people have volunteered to feed cats. It is just as much a commonality as me noticing someone in a bus or park reading a book and saying "hey I've been meaning to read that one, WDYT of it so far?". The only way to know, is... to address the person, thereby taking a risk at either robbing them of a bit of time, or - $deity forbid - meeting someone nice, if for a fleeting moment. They are of course at liberty to turn the attempt down, a perfectly valid response that should be treated with utmost respect. † well, except things like parties or blind dates.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  It puts you in the same space at a time when your attention isn't fully engaged by other matters nor the task at hand with the same person for hours every week. Furthermore at least some conversation is apt to be started for functional reasons. This creates the space, opportunity, and time for meaningful conversation and interaction. Contrast this to standing in line for food together for 2 minutes with someone you aren't apt to ever meet again.

throwanem 3y ago

I never understand where it comes from, this idea that an unplanned social interaction in public necessarily constitutes one person choosing to waste the time of others, or that no one ever has any choice but to let an unwelcome interaction persist indefinitely. It gives the impression of a somewhat socially impoverished style of life, but I assume that's no more accurate a perspective than anyone else's.

michaelmrose 3y ago
I think this opinion differs both geographically and generationally. Uban/young/northern people are less apt to want to socialize with strangers. Neither preference is inherently wrong I tend to think the strangers you are discussing know better than you what is or isn't a waste of their own time. For practical purposes most folks just aren't apt to have anything useful to contribute in 3 minutes. I'm 43 and I don't think I have EVER got anything useful out of such an interaction. It's just pure social petting like monkey's picking bugs off one another and I don't get anything out of it nor feel obligated to do it when walking around. I don't feel socially impoverished because I have actual social interactions in contexts which I feel are useful or beneficial. My theory is the people that have more need of such social petting are aggrieved at changing social standards. It's just not my problem.
- throwanem 3y ago
  "Like monkeys picking bugs off one another" is a hell of a thing for a hominin to say. I take your point about geography and generational change, and I don't think you're wrong, but I'm also not at all convinced this is a healthy habit for a species remarkably social even among primates.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Social grooming is great for group cohesion. But that's others you know, not total strangers. Monkeys don't have to constantly deal with strangers.
    - throwanem 3y ago
      Last I checked at least, monkeys also don't build cities.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        You can learn how to build a city. You can't learn how to build acquaintances with everyone in that city.
        throwanem 3y ago
        I'm not sure how to address the idea that prior acquaintance is a requirement for speaking to anyone, or being spoken to. I remain unconvinced this is other than an impoverished way of looking at the world. If anything, it seems much more to me now also a self-impoverishing one.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        That's not the claim, the claim is that "prior acquaintance" is a pretty big part of social grooming. I'm just saying to be slow to use monkey habits as a reference when critical pieces are so different. I'm not particularly arguing about what humans should do. Merely pointing out that the human situation is more unique than previously implied.
        throwanem 3y ago
        I didn't introduce the figure, only riffed on it to try to make my point more clear. If it's become a distraction, we should indeed discard it. That said, unique or no, I don't think a situation in which no one is willing to speak to or be spoken to by anyone they don't recognize is one that's especially ordinary for this species either. Certainly it has been anything but in my lifetime, and not only for happening to grow up in a place that wasn't Boston or Seattle. One of the things I've loved about Baltimore for the quarter century I've lived here has been exactly that it differed in this, but lately that hasn't seemed very much to be the case, and that bothers me, especially to see happen in such a relatively short time. I'm not inclined to haste in accepting it as normal, especially in the wake of a pandemic that seems to have significantly accelerated a process of cultural disintegration in at least the US. Things were not like this at all five years ago, and it legitimately frightens me that people seem to struggle to remember that, because it means I have to wonder what else may have come to be thought normal five years hence.

lloeki 3y ago

If I go to a cat shelter it's to help cats and interact with cats, how dare you steal that time from me with your simiesque jibberjabber! There's nothing specific to any context† that would let presuppose that anyone's up for socialisation. The only thing in common is that two people have volunteered to feed cats. It is just as much a commonality as me noticing someone in a bus or park reading a book and saying "hey I've been meaning to read that one, WDYT of it so far?". The only way to know, is... to address the person, thereby taking a risk at either robbing them of a bit of time, or - $deity forbid - meeting someone nice, if for a fleeting moment. They are of course at liberty to turn the attempt down, a perfectly valid response that should be treated with utmost respect. † well, except things like parties or blind dates.

michaelmrose 3y ago
It puts you in the same space at a time when your attention isn't fully engaged by other matters nor the task at hand with the same person for hours every week. Furthermore at least some conversation is apt to be started for functional reasons. This creates the space, opportunity, and time for meaningful conversation and interaction. Contrast this to standing in line for food together for 2 minutes with someone you aren't apt to ever meet again.