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Anecdotal, but I have driven across a majority of US states, from Florida to Alaska (and also, on both the East and West sides of Canada) and haven't noticed an

Anecdotal, but I have driven across a majority of US states, from Florida to Alaska (and also, on both the East and West sides of Canada) and haven't noticed any strong correlation between the quality of the roads and how high a states taxes are.

lettergram 3y ago
Most of what you’re driving on could be federal highways. I’m in the same boat, have driven just about everywhere and I haven’t seen any major correlation.
- alienthrowaway 3y ago
  I noticed an immediate degradation in surface quality on the interstate when I crossed into Alabama. Aren't the states responsible for upkeep using federal dollars? Some states are better than others at this.
  - simfree 3y ago
    Initial roadway construction is using primarily federal dollars, but long-term maintenance is usually primarily funded by the state or local municipality.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Since you mentioned Florida, the roads go from good to bad as soon as you cross the border into Alabama, which is a really interesting experience on the interstate. But yes, the roads are bad in Deep South states, although the taxes aren’t really that low either (just people don’t make much money to get much out of them).
- mandeepj 3y ago
  > But yes, the roads are bad in Deep South states Interesting! Quite contrary from the prevailing wisdom - snow and salt destroy the roads. Maybe they don’t make them well to begin with.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It’s all the water and the clay they are built on, Florida just spends to get around it.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Since you mentioned Florida, the roads go from good to bad as soon as you cross the border into Alabama Same thing happens with California/Nevada. I-15 is wide, flat, beautiful and flawless on the Nevada side. As soon as you hit California, it's like a rural county road with no maintenance.
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    I’ve driven track cars with bone shaking suspension from LA to Vegas and honestly don’t recall any difference.
    - reaperducer 3y ago
      I’ve driven track cars with bone shaking suspension from LA to Vegas and honestly don’t recall any difference. Funny, because it's in the Las Vegas newspapers every six months or so how the mayor of Las Vegas and the governor of Nevada are always begging California to upgrade its side of I-15. Almost every month there are 14-hour traffic jams on Sunday night as the SoCal crowd scurries home only to hit the bottleneck at the California border where I-15 goes from six lanes to four, then twists its way through the mountains. I've driven it many dozens of times in the last ten years, and it's well known among people who live in Nevada.
      - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
        Maybe Nevada could provide the money for it? Building roads on flat ground is easier than a freeway through the mountains is it not? And the primary beneficiary of the road is Vegas? Why would I want California taxes to subsidize Vegas gamblers? A road that is totally fine except Sunday night? Think about the two bits of road you are comparing: they are not representative.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I don’t notice much going between the two on I-80, well except you go from pretty straight desert roads into a freaking mountain range. Are mountains involved in the border at I-15 also? California is rated poorly on roads on average because they have a lot of rural/mountainous terrain to cover. In the cities where most people live, the roads are actually pretty good.
- erickhill 3y ago
  Except in Texas. For a state that often bemoans the federal government and its out of control spending, Texas takes an impressive amount of funds and puts it into a very high-quality and modern interstate system. Texas will receive over $27 billion (with a B) over the next ~5 years in federal funding for highways and bridges alone. $10 billion was allocated across 2022-2023. Many of their roads are quite nice and only going to improve. Thanks, Uncle Sam!
  - CydeWeys 3y ago
    Texas has high property taxes. It's actually not a low tax state as measured by overall tax burden. Texas is also very proud of its massive, well-resourced public schools (and their football teams!), and pours a lot of tax revenue into them.
    - hyperliner 3y ago
      [dead]
    - lobocinza 3y ago
      Worse than California?
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        It depends on your income since income taxation in California is extremely graduated. If you make less than $60-70k, you’ll pay less in CA, otherwise you’ll do better in TX.
        CydeWeys 3y ago
        It depends a lot on the value of your property too as that's where the high taxes in Texas are. So it's a two-dimensional comparison.
- wombatpm 3y ago
  Cross from IL to WI on 94. The toll road ends and the reads are so much better. Of course WI will pull over any speeder with out of state plates. They even take credit cards to pay your fine on the spot.
- gunapologist99 3y ago
  Of course, Florida and Texas both have zero personal income tax.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I live in Washington, so I’m not sure what the big deal of that is.
borski 3y ago
In my experience, it correlates fairly well, with Florida being the notable exception. I have no idea why their roads are so good.
- c-linkage 3y ago
  Tourism.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jrockway 3y ago
I grew up in the suburbs. My town had pretty much no commercial base. The next town over had a huge mall. They had much better roads, a much better library, a sports complex, a swimming pool complex, the list goes on. It was obvious to a 10 year old how much of a difference the tax base made. Of course, we just got a library card in their district and I enjoyed the use of the nicer library as well. But still.
smokeydoe 3y ago
Did you drive between Texas - Louisiana? It is a massive difference almost immediately. You go from 55mph top speed limit with many potholes in LA to smooth 75mph Texas roads. Texas roads are much better and I have heard the same opinion many times from people making that drive. Louisiana makes their roads cheaper by making them much more thin, and they don’t get repaired often in rural areas.
- simfree 3y ago
  Is that why Texas property taxes are eye wateringly high?
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    That might be part of it, but far and away the main reason for that is to offset the state’s ability to tout about having no income tax. There’s a list floating around by some personal finance blog that ranks the states based on effective tax rate across most taxes citizens are subject to and Texas consistently ends up remarkably high on that list due to the other taxes being relatively high. Texas is essentially the personification of a low sticker price with hidden fees (e.g., “starts at $0”).
jmknoll 3y ago
There's probably a lot of noise in the data. Off the top of my head, climate (whether roads are exposed to freeze-thaw cycles) and population density/clustering (how many miles of road do you need to maintain per person), are probably more strongly correlated with quality than taxation levels.

lettergram 3y ago

Most of what you’re driving on could be federal highways. I’m in the same boat, have driven just about everywhere and I haven’t seen any major correlation.

alienthrowaway 3y ago
I noticed an immediate degradation in surface quality on the interstate when I crossed into Alabama. Aren't the states responsible for upkeep using federal dollars? Some states are better than others at this.
- simfree 3y ago
  Initial roadway construction is using primarily federal dollars, but long-term maintenance is usually primarily funded by the state or local municipality.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Since you mentioned Florida, the roads go from good to bad as soon as you cross the border into Alabama, which is a really interesting experience on the interstate. But yes, the roads are bad in Deep South states, although the taxes aren’t really that low either (just people don’t make much money to get much out of them).

mandeepj 3y ago
> But yes, the roads are bad in Deep South states Interesting! Quite contrary from the prevailing wisdom - snow and salt destroy the roads. Maybe they don’t make them well to begin with.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  It’s all the water and the clay they are built on, Florida just spends to get around it.
reaperducer 3y ago
Since you mentioned Florida, the roads go from good to bad as soon as you cross the border into Alabama Same thing happens with California/Nevada. I-15 is wide, flat, beautiful and flawless on the Nevada side. As soon as you hit California, it's like a rural county road with no maintenance.
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  I’ve driven track cars with bone shaking suspension from LA to Vegas and honestly don’t recall any difference.
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    I’ve driven track cars with bone shaking suspension from LA to Vegas and honestly don’t recall any difference. Funny, because it's in the Las Vegas newspapers every six months or so how the mayor of Las Vegas and the governor of Nevada are always begging California to upgrade its side of I-15. Almost every month there are 14-hour traffic jams on Sunday night as the SoCal crowd scurries home only to hit the bottleneck at the California border where I-15 goes from six lanes to four, then twists its way through the mountains. I've driven it many dozens of times in the last ten years, and it's well known among people who live in Nevada.
    - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
      Maybe Nevada could provide the money for it? Building roads on flat ground is easier than a freeway through the mountains is it not? And the primary beneficiary of the road is Vegas? Why would I want California taxes to subsidize Vegas gamblers? A road that is totally fine except Sunday night? Think about the two bits of road you are comparing: they are not representative.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I don’t notice much going between the two on I-80, well except you go from pretty straight desert roads into a freaking mountain range. Are mountains involved in the border at I-15 also? California is rated poorly on roads on average because they have a lot of rural/mountainous terrain to cover. In the cities where most people live, the roads are actually pretty good.
erickhill 3y ago
Except in Texas. For a state that often bemoans the federal government and its out of control spending, Texas takes an impressive amount of funds and puts it into a very high-quality and modern interstate system. Texas will receive over $27 billion (with a B) over the next ~5 years in federal funding for highways and bridges alone. $10 billion was allocated across 2022-2023. Many of their roads are quite nice and only going to improve. Thanks, Uncle Sam!
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Texas has high property taxes. It's actually not a low tax state as measured by overall tax burden. Texas is also very proud of its massive, well-resourced public schools (and their football teams!), and pours a lot of tax revenue into them.
  - hyperliner 3y ago
    [dead]
  - lobocinza 3y ago
    Worse than California?
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It depends on your income since income taxation in California is extremely graduated. If you make less than $60-70k, you’ll pay less in CA, otherwise you’ll do better in TX.
      - CydeWeys 3y ago
        It depends a lot on the value of your property too as that's where the high taxes in Texas are. So it's a two-dimensional comparison.
wombatpm 3y ago
Cross from IL to WI on 94. The toll road ends and the reads are so much better. Of course WI will pull over any speeder with out of state plates. They even take credit cards to pay your fine on the spot.
gunapologist99 3y ago
Of course, Florida and Texas both have zero personal income tax.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I live in Washington, so I’m not sure what the big deal of that is.

borski 3y ago

In my experience, it correlates fairly well, with Florida being the notable exception. I have no idea why their roads are so good.

c-linkage 3y ago
Tourism.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jrockway 3y ago

I grew up in the suburbs. My town had pretty much no commercial base. The next town over had a huge mall. They had much better roads, a much better library, a sports complex, a swimming pool complex, the list goes on. It was obvious to a 10 year old how much of a difference the tax base made. Of course, we just got a library card in their district and I enjoyed the use of the nicer library as well. But still.

smokeydoe 3y ago

Did you drive between Texas - Louisiana? It is a massive difference almost immediately. You go from 55mph top speed limit with many potholes in LA to smooth 75mph Texas roads. Texas roads are much better and I have heard the same opinion many times from people making that drive. Louisiana makes their roads cheaper by making them much more thin, and they don’t get repaired often in rural areas.

simfree 3y ago
Is that why Texas property taxes are eye wateringly high?
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  That might be part of it, but far and away the main reason for that is to offset the state’s ability to tout about having no income tax. There’s a list floating around by some personal finance blog that ranks the states based on effective tax rate across most taxes citizens are subject to and Texas consistently ends up remarkably high on that list due to the other taxes being relatively high. Texas is essentially the personification of a low sticker price with hidden fees (e.g., “starts at $0”).

jmknoll 3y ago

There's probably a lot of noise in the data. Off the top of my head, climate (whether roads are exposed to freeze-thaw cycles) and population density/clustering (how many miles of road do you need to maintain per person), are probably more strongly correlated with quality than taxation levels.