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> "we explicitly aim to be the framework with the best vibes." I quite love this.

jmull 3y ago
On its own it sounds like hand-wavy marketing bs to me... Then again, svelte has a great developer experience, so I would say he's delivering on this.
nonethewiser 3y ago
It’s meaningless.
- razemio 3y ago
  It's absolutely not. It works wonders for the community. Sorry for saying, but I am quite certain such a comment as yours is a rare sight in the svelte community. Everything in svelte is around showing others how to do it. Most questions in the forum are solved with concrete examples despite its awesome documentation. People help each other. Good vibes ;).
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    That’s all great but “Goob vibes” is thoroughly vague. It doesnt mean anything in particular.
- mhh__ 3y ago
  That's a good thing, we should embrace it more — we should be more driven by gut feelings than "objective" bullshit, that's how you end up with nonsense like megabytes of JS going down the wire in the first place.
  - noahtallen 3y ago
    I halfway agree with the first part, and I like the statement by the maintainers. But, I think other libraries have done this too. React is a great example. It prioritized making the reactivity model really strong, and everything else is less important. (Like performance or bundle size.) To the extent that the official solution to performance issues is writing a compiler for the library to auto-optimize everything, because they don’t want to compromise on the reactivity model itself. To me, that feels like a subjective choice, going more off vibes than certain metrics. (Not making a value judgement, just explaining what I’ve heard at conferences.) In other words, I don’t think “objective BS” got us into this place. Shops which care a lot about performance will have “performance budgets” for things like TTFB or time to reactive. It’s a more objective approach that tries to minimize lots of MB going over the wire.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    But “good vibes” could mean anything, including many megabytes of JS. If the goal is a small bundle size then they could say that.

On its own it sounds like hand-wavy marketing bs to me... Then again, svelte has a great developer experience, so I would say he's delivering on this.

nonethewiser 3y ago

It’s meaningless.

razemio 3y ago
It's absolutely not. It works wonders for the community. Sorry for saying, but I am quite certain such a comment as yours is a rare sight in the svelte community. Everything in svelte is around showing others how to do it. Most questions in the forum are solved with concrete examples despite its awesome documentation. People help each other. Good vibes ;).
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  That’s all great but “Goob vibes” is thoroughly vague. It doesnt mean anything in particular.
mhh__ 3y ago
That's a good thing, we should embrace it more — we should be more driven by gut feelings than "objective" bullshit, that's how you end up with nonsense like megabytes of JS going down the wire in the first place.
- noahtallen 3y ago
  I halfway agree with the first part, and I like the statement by the maintainers. But, I think other libraries have done this too. React is a great example. It prioritized making the reactivity model really strong, and everything else is less important. (Like performance or bundle size.) To the extent that the official solution to performance issues is writing a compiler for the library to auto-optimize everything, because they don’t want to compromise on the reactivity model itself. To me, that feels like a subjective choice, going more off vibes than certain metrics. (Not making a value judgement, just explaining what I’ve heard at conferences.) In other words, I don’t think “objective BS” got us into this place. Shops which care a lot about performance will have “performance budgets” for things like TTFB or time to reactive. It’s a more objective approach that tries to minimize lots of MB going over the wire.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  But “good vibes” could mean anything, including many megabytes of JS. If the goal is a small bundle size then they could say that.