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Anecdata: investment in robot and 3D builders is ramping up in Germany in response to labour shortages and increasing costs. Source: a German friend in the sect

Anecdata: investment in robot and 3D builders is ramping up in Germany in response to labour shortages and increasing costs. Source: a German friend in the sector. I guess it’s good this issue is being openly discussed. Having a good problem statement is always a good start. By contrast in the UK, deindustrialisation of the 80s/90s/00s was not a massive political topic. And the ensuing enshittification of the economy caught many by surprise.

orwin 3y ago
Automation in the works since at least 2016 in western Europe, it was a leg of the Boost4.0 project (an other leg was better repairability and part manufacturing, which might have pushed 3d printing but I haven't worked on that part so do not believe me on this, it's an unfounded guess). The leftist in me is sad to acknowledge that (not really, I'm more on the autogestion side), but EU institutions dropped the ball on this subjects, the main drivers were auto companies and universities/engineering schools.
skippyboxedhero 3y ago
UK economy isn't shit, still a very wealthy country. The problem is that the ratio of productive to unproductive has shifted significantly. Look at how many lawyers, civil servants, other government workers, management consultants the UK can afford to support. Housing hundreds of thousands of economic migrants for free. That is a rich economy. The problem is that the productive section of the economy isn't growing (and a lot of the unproductive activities, for example paying lawyers hundreds of thousands per year to block industrial development, are blocking growth). The same is true of Germany. Of almost every economy in Western Europe bar NL. There is no "labour shortage"...I don't even understand how that is supposed to work. There is a price for labour, if you can't pay it then you will go out of business. Companies: refuse to train staff, complain that no-one is trained, rely on mass importation of migrant labour, and then also complain that they can't afford to pay more (when they refuse to hire any higher-skill staff who can actually improve productivity)...these aren't real problems. Economic inactivity rates are sky-high across Western Europe WHILST companies say there is a labour shortage. Who believes this? Deindutrailisation was an absolutely huge political topic in the 80/90/00s. It was probably the biggest economic topic throughout the 80s. The "enshittificaton" caught no-one by surprise apart from politicians who believed that the 2000s (specifically) were a time of massive prosperity (you still see this, Starmer goes on continuously about how wonderful the 2000s were, great time for laywers/bankers/landlords, people like him). Throughout the 90/00s, they pumped government jobs into these areas...and are now surprised that everyone else has run out of money to support these people doing nothing? (Same thing has happened in Germany with the East btw, same thing in France, Italy, Spain). I agree that identifying the problem is the issue but it is far deeper than deindustrialization (the discussion of which got us here because the "solution" was: mass government intervention into certain areas to try and boost the vote for whatever party thought they could win...it should be no coincide that elections in the UK are now won and lost in the areas of "deindustrialization" AND nothing happens to fix these areas beyond politicians promising a mystery box full of cash). That this is happening simultaneously in many Western European countries and other developed countries should be the clue that it is cultural. Economic growth has never been easier, costs have never been lower, potential has never been higher. People should ask why we are circling the drain even more rapidly whilst other countries are smashing it.
- tim333 3y ago
  >Economic inactivity rates are sky-high across Western Europe WHILST companies say there is a labour shortage. Who believes this? Quite a lot of the problems come from property speculation. Older property owning folk have enough rent and the like to not bother working. Meanwhile younger people have to work long hours and can't afford to buy a house. A lot of incomes for the lawyers and the like come from people flipping property rather than actually making stuff.

orwin 3y ago

Automation in the works since at least 2016 in western Europe, it was a leg of the Boost4.0 project (an other leg was better repairability and part manufacturing, which might have pushed 3d printing but I haven't worked on that part so do not believe me on this, it's an unfounded guess). The leftist in me is sad to acknowledge that (not really, I'm more on the autogestion side), but EU institutions dropped the ball on this subjects, the main drivers were auto companies and universities/engineering schools.

skippyboxedhero 3y ago

UK economy isn't shit, still a very wealthy country. The problem is that the ratio of productive to unproductive has shifted significantly. Look at how many lawyers, civil servants, other government workers, management consultants the UK can afford to support. Housing hundreds of thousands of economic migrants for free. That is a rich economy. The problem is that the productive section of the economy isn't growing (and a lot of the unproductive activities, for example paying lawyers hundreds of thousands per year to block industrial development, are blocking growth). The same is true of Germany. Of almost every economy in Western Europe bar NL. There is no "labour shortage"...I don't even understand how that is supposed to work. There is a price for labour, if you can't pay it then you will go out of business. Companies: refuse to train staff, complain that no-one is trained, rely on mass importation of migrant labour, and then also complain that they can't afford to pay more (when they refuse to hire any higher-skill staff who can actually improve productivity)...these aren't real problems. Economic inactivity rates are sky-high across Western Europe WHILST companies say there is a labour shortage. Who believes this? Deindutrailisation was an absolutely huge political topic in the 80/90/00s. It was probably the biggest economic topic throughout the 80s. The "enshittificaton" caught no-one by surprise apart from politicians who believed that the 2000s (specifically) were a time of massive prosperity (you still see this, Starmer goes on continuously about how wonderful the 2000s were, great time for laywers/bankers/landlords, people like him). Throughout the 90/00s, they pumped government jobs into these areas...and are now surprised that everyone else has run out of money to support these people doing nothing? (Same thing has happened in Germany with the East btw, same thing in France, Italy, Spain). I agree that identifying the problem is the issue but it is far deeper than deindustrialization (the discussion of which got us here because the "solution" was: mass government intervention into certain areas to try and boost the vote for whatever party thought they could win...it should be no coincide that elections in the UK are now won and lost in the areas of "deindustrialization" AND nothing happens to fix these areas beyond politicians promising a mystery box full of cash). That this is happening simultaneously in many Western European countries and other developed countries should be the clue that it is cultural. Economic growth has never been easier, costs have never been lower, potential has never been higher. People should ask why we are circling the drain even more rapidly whilst other countries are smashing it.

tim333 3y ago
>Economic inactivity rates are sky-high across Western Europe WHILST companies say there is a labour shortage. Who believes this? Quite a lot of the problems come from property speculation. Older property owning folk have enough rent and the like to not bother working. Meanwhile younger people have to work long hours and can't afford to buy a house. A lot of incomes for the lawyers and the like come from people flipping property rather than actually making stuff.