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> If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation. Why do you think ele

> If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation. Why do you think electricity prices are high?

bagels 3y ago
A combination of: mismanagement and corruption. To pay for all the people that PGE murdered with their negligence? Why do you think electricity prices are high? Why should the rates be 4x the rest of the country?
- nxm 3y ago
  Because of regulations and higher costs (labor)
  - bagels 3y ago
    Which regulations? Is there much difference in labor cost and regulations between Sacramento, Santa Clara and the areas that PGE covers?
  - xp84 3y ago
    I’m curious if there’s a big regional difference in cost of the pretty skilled labor involved in power generation and delivery.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  If that were the case why would you continue to let PGE run the grid?
nsfmc 3y ago
i'm not sure if you're serious, but the california public utilities commision's public advocates office (what a mouthful) describes california's rates as generally higher than most of the nation[0], with southern california's rates being highest (with both increasing). you can see, for instance san diego's rates [1] which are $0.38/kWh in the winter and $0.48/kWh in the summer. for context, this means if i pay 11 dollars in electricity generation (because i'm part of a municipal electric generation coop), i'm still paying $36 for distribution/transmission/etc, which is $47 for 106kWh used or ~$.44/kWh which is roughly what electrify america charges ($.48/kWh) when i go to 'fill up my car.' as far as i can tell from talking to people, this is is more than most people anywhere in the country (including hawaii) pay for their electricity. [0]: https://www.publicadvocates.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cal-advocates-website/files/press-room/reports-and-analyses/230224-public-advocates-office-2022-electric-rates-report.pdf https://www.publicadvocates.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cal-advocate... [1]: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-24%20Schedule%20DR%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-24%2...
- fragmede 3y ago
  fwiw, San Francisco is at $0.51/kWh for peak usage.
  - nsfmc 3y ago
    oooooph
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      It's a bit more nuanced than that (and PG&E deliberately makes their bills difficult to read). In Oakland for the baseline tier on the time of use plan: Peak is $0.51536 (delivery) - $0.10556 (baseline credit) + $0.16225 (generation via East Bay Community Energy / Ava) or just over of $0.57 per kWh. Off-peak is $0.48701 - $0.10556 - $0.13772 or just shy of $0.52/kWh. Add that baseline credit back in for when you reach tier 2 (currently 12.9 kWh/day for my apartment which factors in winter usage and electric heat). I have about 3.5 kW of baseboard heaters (and use 2.75 kW at most). Whatever the duty cycle is to keep the apartment at 60°F 24x7 is well more than 12.9 kWh so obviously I don't do that anymore. Rates are set to go up again in March or April. Gas is $2.43888/therm with tier 2 kicking in at 6.72 therms/month and minimum charge of $0.13151/day.
inferiorhuman 3y ago
Why do you think electricity prices are high? Because PG&E: * spent billions over the past few decades on stock buybacks * spent billions on fines and restitution for malfeasance like falsifying call-before-you-dig records * spends tens of millions annually on stock dividends (down from billions annually pre-bankruptcy) * used their safety budget to pay executive bonuses * stacked the CPUC in their favor * rakes in billions in profit (roughly $1/share EPS) annually

> If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation. Why do you think electricity prices are high?

bagels 3y ago

A combination of: mismanagement and corruption. To pay for all the people that PGE murdered with their negligence? Why do you think electricity prices are high? Why should the rates be 4x the rest of the country?

nxm 3y ago
Because of regulations and higher costs (labor)
- bagels 3y ago
  Which regulations? Is there much difference in labor cost and regulations between Sacramento, Santa Clara and the areas that PGE covers?
- xp84 3y ago
  I’m curious if there’s a big regional difference in cost of the pretty skilled labor involved in power generation and delivery.
nonethewiser 3y ago
If that were the case why would you continue to let PGE run the grid?

nsfmc 3y ago

i'm not sure if you're serious, but the california public utilities commision's public advocates office (what a mouthful) describes california's rates as generally higher than most of the nation[0], with southern california's rates being highest (with both increasing). you can see, for instance san diego's rates [1] which are $0.38/kWh in the winter and $0.48/kWh in the summer. for context, this means if i pay 11 dollars in electricity generation (because i'm part of a municipal electric generation coop), i'm still paying $36 for distribution/transmission/etc, which is $47 for 106kWh used or ~$.44/kWh which is roughly what electrify america charges ($.48/kWh) when i go to 'fill up my car.' as far as i can tell from talking to people, this is is more than most people anywhere in the country (including hawaii) pay for their electricity. [0]: https://www.publicadvocates.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cal-advocates-website/files/press-room/reports-and-analyses/230224-public-advocates-office-2022-electric-rates-report.pdf https://www.publicadvocates.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cal-advocate... [1]: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-24%20Schedule%20DR%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-24%2...

fragmede 3y ago
fwiw, San Francisco is at $0.51/kWh for peak usage.
- nsfmc 3y ago
  oooooph
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    It's a bit more nuanced than that (and PG&E deliberately makes their bills difficult to read). In Oakland for the baseline tier on the time of use plan: Peak is $0.51536 (delivery) - $0.10556 (baseline credit) + $0.16225 (generation via East Bay Community Energy / Ava) or just over of $0.57 per kWh. Off-peak is $0.48701 - $0.10556 - $0.13772 or just shy of $0.52/kWh. Add that baseline credit back in for when you reach tier 2 (currently 12.9 kWh/day for my apartment which factors in winter usage and electric heat). I have about 3.5 kW of baseboard heaters (and use 2.75 kW at most). Whatever the duty cycle is to keep the apartment at 60°F 24x7 is well more than 12.9 kWh so obviously I don't do that anymore. Rates are set to go up again in March or April. Gas is $2.43888/therm with tier 2 kicking in at 6.72 therms/month and minimum charge of $0.13151/day.

inferiorhuman 3y ago

Why do you think electricity prices are high? Because PG&E: * spent billions over the past few decades on stock buybacks * spent billions on fines and restitution for malfeasance like falsifying call-before-you-dig records * spends tens of millions annually on stock dividends (down from billions annually pre-bankruptcy) * used their safety budget to pay executive bonuses * stacked the CPUC in their favor * rakes in billions in profit (roughly $1/share EPS) annually