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Lately I have seen developers are nuking the bloat by converting existing applications to hundreds/thousands of ultra slim micro services. I applaud this approa

by geodel 3y ago

Lately I have seen developers are nuking the bloat by converting existing applications to hundreds/thousands of ultra slim micro services. I applaud this approach of taking this issue head on at least in server side domains.

namaria 3y ago
> hundreds/thousands of ultra slim micro services Sounds to me like trading one type of bloat for another.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  More macro level complexity for sure, but I guess you eliminate some issues from having all that as a monolith.
  - namaria 3y ago
    And create many others by having networking being now part of your architecture. Bloat is bloat, changing how it's distributed isn't getting at the problem.
    - 7thaccount 3y ago
      I agree and don't really work in this area anyway, but work with brilliant developers who didn't go that route just to add something on their resume. There are obviously tradeoffs and it isn't a silver bullet. Trading one kind of complexity for another may make sense depending on the use.
  - infogulch 3y ago
    Yes this is a great move, turning code bloat problems into a distributed systems bloat problem is definitely an improvement.
    - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
      We'll break the elephant apart into a brainiphant, a heartiphant, a liveriphant, two lungiphants, and they'll all agree over a communication protocol with which to exchange matter and energy. It's more a way to enforce API boundaries than reducing complexity. I guess when you have some anxiety about your ability to do so otherwise.
      - thfuran 3y ago
        If the goal is just to have harder boundaries, it seems like entirely the wrong tool for the job and comes with a ton of unnecessary baggage. Something like java's module system seems like a much better way to try to enforce API boundaries. Of course, there are languages that lack an equivalent but which can be used to write microservices.
    - troupe 3y ago
      Agreed, and if security is an issue, creating network connections between every single piece of your application seems to exponentially increase the attack surface.
      - burnished 3y ago
        Au contraire, an attacker must understand and then navigate the web you have woven which as we all know is impossible. Security could not be more perfect
meindnoch 3y ago
Can't tell if sarcastic or not.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
In a sane world, this would be satire, but I really can't tell these days. Have people taken "Function-as-a-Service" too literally and done the equivalent of moving "is_even" into an AWS Lambda? Or maybe have a dedicated "is_even" nano-service with its own Kubernetes cluster?
- geodel 3y ago
  You are thinking in right direction. Ultra small but critical service like "is_even" and combining it with reliability of a kubernetes cluster, that is genius level stuff.
  - BobbyTables2 3y ago
    How many have even setup a Kubernetes cluster manually? They use a Kubernetes “distribution” that adds another layer of automation on top of that!!! The day is near where “is_even” will be decomposed into multiple containers, with an added caching layer, and extensible authentication layer.
    - geodel 3y ago
      Agree. One can't really run enterprise grade solutions by haphazardly throwing code in a kubernetes cluster. It need to have fully automated pipeline with authn/authz and other fixings.
    - peteradio 3y ago
      Caching makes it performant
- triggercut 3y ago
  You might hate/enjoy this then: https://andreasjhkarlsson.github.io/jekyll/update/2023/12/27/4-billion-if-statements.html https://andreasjhkarlsson.github.io/jekyll/update/2023/12/27...

by geodel 3y ago

namaria 3y ago

> hundreds/thousands of ultra slim micro services Sounds to me like trading one type of bloat for another.

7thaccount 3y ago
More macro level complexity for sure, but I guess you eliminate some issues from having all that as a monolith.
- namaria 3y ago
  And create many others by having networking being now part of your architecture. Bloat is bloat, changing how it's distributed isn't getting at the problem.
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    I agree and don't really work in this area anyway, but work with brilliant developers who didn't go that route just to add something on their resume. There are obviously tradeoffs and it isn't a silver bullet. Trading one kind of complexity for another may make sense depending on the use.
- infogulch 3y ago
  Yes this is a great move, turning code bloat problems into a distributed systems bloat problem is definitely an improvement.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    We'll break the elephant apart into a brainiphant, a heartiphant, a liveriphant, two lungiphants, and they'll all agree over a communication protocol with which to exchange matter and energy. It's more a way to enforce API boundaries than reducing complexity. I guess when you have some anxiety about your ability to do so otherwise.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      If the goal is just to have harder boundaries, it seems like entirely the wrong tool for the job and comes with a ton of unnecessary baggage. Something like java's module system seems like a much better way to try to enforce API boundaries. Of course, there are languages that lack an equivalent but which can be used to write microservices.
  - troupe 3y ago
    Agreed, and if security is an issue, creating network connections between every single piece of your application seems to exponentially increase the attack surface.
    - burnished 3y ago
      Au contraire, an attacker must understand and then navigate the web you have woven which as we all know is impossible. Security could not be more perfect

meindnoch 3y ago

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago

In a sane world, this would be satire, but I really can't tell these days. Have people taken "Function-as-a-Service" too literally and done the equivalent of moving "is_even" into an AWS Lambda? Or maybe have a dedicated "is_even" nano-service with its own Kubernetes cluster?

geodel 3y ago
You are thinking in right direction. Ultra small but critical service like "is_even" and combining it with reliability of a kubernetes cluster, that is genius level stuff.
- BobbyTables2 3y ago
  How many have even setup a Kubernetes cluster manually? They use a Kubernetes “distribution” that adds another layer of automation on top of that!!! The day is near where “is_even” will be decomposed into multiple containers, with an added caching layer, and extensible authentication layer.
  - geodel 3y ago
    Agree. One can't really run enterprise grade solutions by haphazardly throwing code in a kubernetes cluster. It need to have fully automated pipeline with authn/authz and other fixings.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    Caching makes it performant
triggercut 3y ago
You might hate/enjoy this then: https://andreasjhkarlsson.github.io/jekyll/update/2023/12/27/4-billion-if-statements.html https://andreasjhkarlsson.github.io/jekyll/update/2023/12/27...