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I have mixed feelings about our heat pump system. Yes, it's efficient. But it breaks about once every other year. Last winter the compressor circuit board ma

I have mixed feelings about our heat pump system. Yes, it's efficient. But it breaks about once every other year. Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix. Two years ago it was another issue entirely. All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive, but it's still a pain when the heat goes out in the middle of winter and all the service techs are booked up. This is a Daikin system, which I thought was a pretty standard, respected brand. But like a lot of things built today, it just wasn't built to last. If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. It'll be a nightmare. I had a heat pump water heater at our previous home, and the compressor also broke after a few years. We just operated it as an old-fashioned electric water heater after that because it would cost more to fix than it would to replace. And both sounded like a pain.

nsguy 3y ago
I got a TOSOT. So far so good.
liminalsunset 3y ago
I'm wondering if many of the failures in electronically controlled equipment are due to power surges etc. It may be worth having a whole-home (or equipment specific) surge protective device installed, which will protect the power electronics (which have very minimal surge protection built in) from anything else happening on the line (particularly if there are storms where you live often)
- stephen_g 3y ago
  Whole house surge protectors are now mandated in some country’s codes already. It’s a good idea, I’m looking at installing one here myself just because I have some expensive electronics.
cyberax 3y ago
> If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. It'll be a nightmare. Why? Assuming you have a split unit, the lines are just copper pipes and will work with any other heatpump.
- nostromo 3y ago
  Potentially, yes. But when we asked about this we were told that not all heat pumps and head units are compatible -- so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    I think people may be aware of your price insensitivity.
  - jmtulloss 3y ago
    FWIW there are different sizes but they are standardized and you can adapt most sizes to each other (although on the compressor side you only would want to size down). If you ever need to replace it you'll need to be careful with the line sizes but you should be able to find a compatible unit to your existing install. Controllers, otoh, are a different story. You will probably need to replace your head units if you also replace the compressor with a different brand. Same story with being careful about line size. Refrigerant isn't a big deal as you'll need to flush it and repressurize anyway if you replace these parts.
    - nostromo 3y ago
      Thank you. You're more helpful than the last service tech we talked to. :)
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type. Oh, that's totally true for newer models. They no longer use simple dry-contacts interfaces, but instead have complicated digital protocols between head units and the compressor. So quite likely you'll have to replace them all. But you won't need to open up the walls and replace the piping.
teaearlgraycold 3y ago
How cold are your winters? My heat pumps are doing fine but it’s NorCal so they never have to work too hard.
ikiris 3y ago
Sounds like you got seriously taken advantage of by the contractors you've been using.
antisthenes 3y ago
> Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix. Ok, so it sounds like you got scammed. HVAC circuit boards cost $100. > Two years ago it was another issue entirely. Which was? > All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive Yeah, obviously, if you're willing to spend $5k on a service call. > If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. Heat Pump units can just go in place of a regular AC unit. They can use existing ductwork and coolant lines. Not sure why you ran heating lines everywhere? Do you have a mini-split unit per room or something?
- stephen_g 3y ago
  I’m going to second that one, that seems mind-bogglingly expensive. Definitely seems like a major rip-off. I can even buy a whole 14 kW Daikin ducted system for under US$4K here (outdoor unit and one air handler) in my country!
  - interroboink 3y ago
    What country, if I may ask? I recently did some research on ducted Daikin systems in the Seattle area, and estimates were all in the $20K range, for full installation. The equipment itself may be ~$6K or so (not sure exactly), but it's the labor that costs a lot.
    - stephen_g 3y ago
      I’m just taking equipment cost here, this is in Australia (Air conditioning is extremely common here, and basically every unit is a reverse cycle heat pump too, so installation also seems very cheap compared to the US). Just saying if the equipment cost of the whole system is well under $5K, it shouldn’t cost anything like that to replace a circuit board (which as others have said, the part probably costs $100 wholesale to the technician).
- interroboink 3y ago
  > HVAC circuit boards cost $100. This very much depends on the brand and the board, no? A quick search for the brand the OP mentioned (Daikin) shows some boards easily in the $1000 range. Just one example: https://airconditionersrus.com/en/components-parts/2423-daikin-4009629-printed-circuit-assy-control.html https://airconditionersrus.com/en/components-parts/2423-daik... I don't know the details of OP's situation, but I'm not sure what makes you say such things so confidently.

nsguy 3y ago

I got a TOSOT. So far so good.

liminalsunset 3y ago

I'm wondering if many of the failures in electronically controlled equipment are due to power surges etc. It may be worth having a whole-home (or equipment specific) surge protective device installed, which will protect the power electronics (which have very minimal surge protection built in) from anything else happening on the line (particularly if there are storms where you live often)

stephen_g 3y ago
Whole house surge protectors are now mandated in some country’s codes already. It’s a good idea, I’m looking at installing one here myself just because I have some expensive electronics.

cyberax 3y ago

> If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. It'll be a nightmare. Why? Assuming you have a split unit, the lines are just copper pipes and will work with any other heatpump.

nostromo 3y ago
Potentially, yes. But when we asked about this we were told that not all heat pumps and head units are compatible -- so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type.
- peteradio 3y ago
  I think people may be aware of your price insensitivity.
- jmtulloss 3y ago
  FWIW there are different sizes but they are standardized and you can adapt most sizes to each other (although on the compressor side you only would want to size down). If you ever need to replace it you'll need to be careful with the line sizes but you should be able to find a compatible unit to your existing install. Controllers, otoh, are a different story. You will probably need to replace your head units if you also replace the compressor with a different brand. Same story with being careful about line size. Refrigerant isn't a big deal as you'll need to flush it and repressurize anyway if you replace these parts.
  - nostromo 3y ago
    Thank you. You're more helpful than the last service tech we talked to. :)
- cyberax 3y ago
  > so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type. Oh, that's totally true for newer models. They no longer use simple dry-contacts interfaces, but instead have complicated digital protocols between head units and the compressor. So quite likely you'll have to replace them all. But you won't need to open up the walls and replace the piping.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago

How cold are your winters? My heat pumps are doing fine but it’s NorCal so they never have to work too hard.

ikiris 3y ago

Sounds like you got seriously taken advantage of by the contractors you've been using.

antisthenes 3y ago

> Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix. Ok, so it sounds like you got scammed. HVAC circuit boards cost $100. > Two years ago it was another issue entirely. Which was? > All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive Yeah, obviously, if you're willing to spend $5k on a service call. > If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. Heat Pump units can just go in place of a regular AC unit. They can use existing ductwork and coolant lines. Not sure why you ran heating lines everywhere? Do you have a mini-split unit per room or something?

stephen_g 3y ago
I’m going to second that one, that seems mind-bogglingly expensive. Definitely seems like a major rip-off. I can even buy a whole 14 kW Daikin ducted system for under US$4K here (outdoor unit and one air handler) in my country!
- interroboink 3y ago
  What country, if I may ask? I recently did some research on ducted Daikin systems in the Seattle area, and estimates were all in the $20K range, for full installation. The equipment itself may be ~$6K or so (not sure exactly), but it's the labor that costs a lot.
  - stephen_g 3y ago
    I’m just taking equipment cost here, this is in Australia (Air conditioning is extremely common here, and basically every unit is a reverse cycle heat pump too, so installation also seems very cheap compared to the US). Just saying if the equipment cost of the whole system is well under $5K, it shouldn’t cost anything like that to replace a circuit board (which as others have said, the part probably costs $100 wholesale to the technician).
interroboink 3y ago
> HVAC circuit boards cost $100. This very much depends on the brand and the board, no? A quick search for the brand the OP mentioned (Daikin) shows some boards easily in the $1000 range. Just one example: https://airconditionersrus.com/en/components-parts/2423-daikin-4009629-printed-circuit-assy-control.html https://airconditionersrus.com/en/components-parts/2423-daik... I don't know the details of OP's situation, but I'm not sure what makes you say such things so confidently.