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Michael Lewis: A Wall Street Job Can’t Match a Calling in Life

68 points by gaika 18y ago

dpapathanasiou 18y ago
There's an interview with Lewis talking about the same subject here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97429370 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9742937...
deleted 18y ago
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deleted 18y ago
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fortes 18y ago
Most interesting quote (in my opinion): Job vs. Calling The distinction is artificial but worth drawing. A job will never satisfy you all by itself, but it will afford you security and the chance to pursue an exciting and fulfilling life outside of your work. A calling is an activity you find so compelling that you wind up organizing your entire self around it — often to the detriment of your life outside of it. There’s no shame in either. Each has costs and benefits. There is no reason to make a fetish of your career. There are activities other than work in which to find meaning and pleasure and even a sense of self-importance — you just need to learn how to look. Having something that is both a calling & a job may be a luxury or a curse. I have yet to find it, so they've been separate for me so far.
- kirse 18y ago
  This too: some of your anxiety is caused by your desire for the benefits of each -- job and calling -- without the costs. I think every young person, including myself, tries to have it all and we don't realize that something has to be sacrificed. For awhile I wasn't willing to fully dedicate myself to my startup because I knew that to do the best I could it would have to become my life. What killed me was that I had just graduated and felt that I would lose all my great new friends and lose my weekend social life. It took me a couple months to realize -- So what? Unless it's your health or spouse/kids, pretty much anything is worth the perceived "sacrifice" when you're pursuing your own calling. Waking up each day with that enveloping purpose and drive is such an awesome feeling.
  - briancooley 18y ago
    Unless it's your health or spouse/kids, pretty much anything is worth the sacrifice when you're pursuing your own calling. Waking up each day with that enveloping purpose and drive is such an awesome feeling. The flip side, which I think I am on the verge of experiencing, is that to sacrifice having the feeling of purpose and drive might end up costing you your health and/or family. Never underestimate the toll that denying yourself can have on your health and relationships.
    - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
      That is a hard lesson to learn. Good luck. One technique is to have a set time set aside where you focus totally on, say, family. For me, it is Sundays at 3pm. I have a videoconference with my folks, and for that hour I am theirs, completely. The benefits to having a regular schedule increase the potency of the interaction, as it provides an anchor, rhythm and excuse. As for your health, well, my grampa used to say "your health is your wealth". That is still a lesson I am trying to learn.
      - gruseom 18y ago
        Unless I'm misreading you, it looks like you're addressing a different problem. The parent comment was about how sacrificing your deeper needs (presumably in service of family, or a concept of family) can backfire and end up harming the thing it was intended to preserve.
        aaronblohowiak 18y ago
        My first line sympathizes with the truth that denying yourself is detrimental. In my next bit I am suggesting that you do not need to sacrifice your "deeper needs" (to use your language) in order to have a meaningful family life. Further, I am suggesting that there are auxiliary benefits to the particular technique that I propose.
        gruseom 18y ago
iamwil 18y ago
It'd be great if some of the college kids that were going to be in finance became teachers instead. Problem is we don't quite have the right incentives set up here in the US.
skaylie 18y ago
I'm a "recovering" investment banker (I'm about to get my three-year chip!) and there's a lot in this article that's very interesting. Working on Wall St. and living in NYC can really warp your perspective on life and money. When making 10 times what the average family makes in a year is considered a bad year, something is very distorted. It must seem devastating for all of the bankers getting laid off or uncertain about their futures, but once the dust settles, they'll be okay if they've lived below their considerable means. It seems that the key to financial happiness is to live within your means. Perhaps if more people did that instead of cashing out the equity on their McMansions, there'd be a bunch more happiness to go around and this guy's firm wouldn't be in the headlines every week... As for making your living by doing your calling, you either have to make some sacrifices or be very fortunate and have your calling happen to be something that's lucrative. Unless you work for a job that is minimally demanding, you most likely will only become very successful if you truly have some calling for it. Otherwise you'll probably tread water and have to find fulfillment in other parts of your life. You start having real problems if you work at a demanding job that you don't have a calling for. I did that for years and it could be very difficult. I was always somewhat awed by the bankers I worked with who absolutely loved it and it clearly was their calling. Often, their third wives were very happy to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Making the switch from Wall St. was difficult and it really took a little bit of time to put the whole money thing into perspective. Now, I've found a calling creating software and am optimistic that I'm one of the lucky ones whose calling can be lucrative. Now if we can only start generating revenue...
- dpapathanasiou 18y ago
  Good luck. My situation is similar: after leaving an i-bank, I've managed to make a living in software (somewhat ironically by selling niche services to brokerages), but it's nothing like what I was making before. Still, I wouldn't trade (no pun intended) the experience of the last few years, and I'm glad I made the change.
- azanar 18y ago
  As for making your living by doing your calling, you either have to make some sacrifices or be very fortunate and have your calling happen to be something that's lucrative. Unless you work for a job that is minimally demanding, you most likely will only become very successful if you truly have some calling for it. Otherwise you'll probably tread water and have to find fulfillment in other parts of your life. From the perspective of someone who's been on and seen both sides, is it worth making the sacrifices to live by one's calling if the work isn't very lucrative? Or is it more worthwhile to make sacrifices in what one does for a living to make it easier to find fulfillment elsewhere? Has your opinion on this changed between starting as an IB and where you are now as a software developer? I ask because your thoughts above reminded me the number of different conversations I've had with people about comfort and fulfillment, and how much one can realistically hope to find either in what they do for a living. Some have even go so far as to suggest not doing one's calling for fulfillment, as they will likely have their passions crushed by some nameless corporate structure. For perspective, my stance recently has been that aligning both is a worthwhile experiment, and that those who sacrifice other things in doing so will likely find those sacrifices aren't so painful in hindsight (excepting sacrificing things like food, clothing, shelter, etc). Just from the people I've known, those who have worked by their calling seem overall more fulfilled than those who looked elsewhere after-hours. But I'll admit my data set is pretty small, and am curious what others experiences have been.
alex_c 18y ago
on the other, your instinct to abandon your chosen career the moment it ceases to offer an easy path to fame and fortune, suggests that what you’re really in the market for is a job. I don't really follow the logic there. That makes sense only if the career he wants to abandon already happens to be his calling.
kingkongrevenge 18y ago
A word like "calling" sure triggers my hokey-bullshit detector. Alternately, I might think it's a little blasphemous. Following "the call" means renouncing secular life and swearing an oath to serve god and the church. It doesn't mean finding a job that makes you happy.
jwilliams 18y ago
Just because some choose Wall St for the wrong reasons doesn't mean it's not a calling for others...
jwesley 18y ago
Not anymore, what with the economy how it is the bonuses are barely anything!

68 points by gaika 18y ago

There's an interview with Lewis talking about the same subject here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97429370 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9742937...

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

fortes 18y ago

Most interesting quote (in my opinion): Job vs. Calling The distinction is artificial but worth drawing. A job will never satisfy you all by itself, but it will afford you security and the chance to pursue an exciting and fulfilling life outside of your work. A calling is an activity you find so compelling that you wind up organizing your entire self around it — often to the detriment of your life outside of it. There’s no shame in either. Each has costs and benefits. There is no reason to make a fetish of your career. There are activities other than work in which to find meaning and pleasure and even a sense of self-importance — you just need to learn how to look. Having something that is both a calling & a job may be a luxury or a curse. I have yet to find it, so they've been separate for me so far.

kirse 18y ago
This too: some of your anxiety is caused by your desire for the benefits of each -- job and calling -- without the costs. I think every young person, including myself, tries to have it all and we don't realize that something has to be sacrificed. For awhile I wasn't willing to fully dedicate myself to my startup because I knew that to do the best I could it would have to become my life. What killed me was that I had just graduated and felt that I would lose all my great new friends and lose my weekend social life. It took me a couple months to realize -- So what? Unless it's your health or spouse/kids, pretty much anything is worth the perceived "sacrifice" when you're pursuing your own calling. Waking up each day with that enveloping purpose and drive is such an awesome feeling.
- briancooley 18y ago
  Unless it's your health or spouse/kids, pretty much anything is worth the sacrifice when you're pursuing your own calling. Waking up each day with that enveloping purpose and drive is such an awesome feeling. The flip side, which I think I am on the verge of experiencing, is that to sacrifice having the feeling of purpose and drive might end up costing you your health and/or family. Never underestimate the toll that denying yourself can have on your health and relationships.
  - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
    That is a hard lesson to learn. Good luck. One technique is to have a set time set aside where you focus totally on, say, family. For me, it is Sundays at 3pm. I have a videoconference with my folks, and for that hour I am theirs, completely. The benefits to having a regular schedule increase the potency of the interaction, as it provides an anchor, rhythm and excuse. As for your health, well, my grampa used to say "your health is your wealth". That is still a lesson I am trying to learn.
    - gruseom 18y ago
      Unless I'm misreading you, it looks like you're addressing a different problem. The parent comment was about how sacrificing your deeper needs (presumably in service of family, or a concept of family) can backfire and end up harming the thing it was intended to preserve.
      - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
        My first line sympathizes with the truth that denying yourself is detrimental. In my next bit I am suggesting that you do not need to sacrifice your "deeper needs" (to use your language) in order to have a meaningful family life. Further, I am suggesting that there are auxiliary benefits to the particular technique that I propose.
        gruseom 18y ago

iamwil 18y ago

It'd be great if some of the college kids that were going to be in finance became teachers instead. Problem is we don't quite have the right incentives set up here in the US.

skaylie 18y ago

I'm a "recovering" investment banker (I'm about to get my three-year chip!) and there's a lot in this article that's very interesting. Working on Wall St. and living in NYC can really warp your perspective on life and money. When making 10 times what the average family makes in a year is considered a bad year, something is very distorted. It must seem devastating for all of the bankers getting laid off or uncertain about their futures, but once the dust settles, they'll be okay if they've lived below their considerable means. It seems that the key to financial happiness is to live within your means. Perhaps if more people did that instead of cashing out the equity on their McMansions, there'd be a bunch more happiness to go around and this guy's firm wouldn't be in the headlines every week... As for making your living by doing your calling, you either have to make some sacrifices or be very fortunate and have your calling happen to be something that's lucrative. Unless you work for a job that is minimally demanding, you most likely will only become very successful if you truly have some calling for it. Otherwise you'll probably tread water and have to find fulfillment in other parts of your life. You start having real problems if you work at a demanding job that you don't have a calling for. I did that for years and it could be very difficult. I was always somewhat awed by the bankers I worked with who absolutely loved it and it clearly was their calling. Often, their third wives were very happy to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Making the switch from Wall St. was difficult and it really took a little bit of time to put the whole money thing into perspective. Now, I've found a calling creating software and am optimistic that I'm one of the lucky ones whose calling can be lucrative. Now if we can only start generating revenue...

dpapathanasiou 18y ago
Good luck. My situation is similar: after leaving an i-bank, I've managed to make a living in software (somewhat ironically by selling niche services to brokerages), but it's nothing like what I was making before. Still, I wouldn't trade (no pun intended) the experience of the last few years, and I'm glad I made the change.
azanar 18y ago
As for making your living by doing your calling, you either have to make some sacrifices or be very fortunate and have your calling happen to be something that's lucrative. Unless you work for a job that is minimally demanding, you most likely will only become very successful if you truly have some calling for it. Otherwise you'll probably tread water and have to find fulfillment in other parts of your life. From the perspective of someone who's been on and seen both sides, is it worth making the sacrifices to live by one's calling if the work isn't very lucrative? Or is it more worthwhile to make sacrifices in what one does for a living to make it easier to find fulfillment elsewhere? Has your opinion on this changed between starting as an IB and where you are now as a software developer? I ask because your thoughts above reminded me the number of different conversations I've had with people about comfort and fulfillment, and how much one can realistically hope to find either in what they do for a living. Some have even go so far as to suggest not doing one's calling for fulfillment, as they will likely have their passions crushed by some nameless corporate structure. For perspective, my stance recently has been that aligning both is a worthwhile experiment, and that those who sacrifice other things in doing so will likely find those sacrifices aren't so painful in hindsight (excepting sacrificing things like food, clothing, shelter, etc). Just from the people I've known, those who have worked by their calling seem overall more fulfilled than those who looked elsewhere after-hours. But I'll admit my data set is pretty small, and am curious what others experiences have been.

alex_c 18y ago

on the other, your instinct to abandon your chosen career the moment it ceases to offer an easy path to fame and fortune, suggests that what you’re really in the market for is a job. I don't really follow the logic there. That makes sense only if the career he wants to abandon already happens to be his calling.

kingkongrevenge 18y ago

A word like "calling" sure triggers my hokey-bullshit detector. Alternately, I might think it's a little blasphemous. Following "the call" means renouncing secular life and swearing an oath to serve god and the church. It doesn't mean finding a job that makes you happy.

jwilliams 18y ago

Just because some choose Wall St for the wrong reasons doesn't mean it's not a calling for others...

jwesley 18y ago

Not anymore, what with the economy how it is the bonuses are barely anything!