6 ms·

The internet is very different from how it used to be. Free flowing information is no longer free, except that censorship has a new word now, 'ai-safety'

jimmySixDOF 3y ago
It was nice to see that hackernoon just released their whole history to free open source use so it's a small but meaningful counterpoint to people circling their information wagons and putting up fences.
sk11001 3y ago
Google’s poorly-thought-out half-baked 1-day-old product isn’t the internet.
- robbyiq999 3y ago
  > poorly-thought-out half-baked Like the 'DHS Artificial Intelligence Task Force'? https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/artificial-intelligence https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/artificial-intell...
  - bbor 3y ago
    I don’t see how the US government investing in national security tech that seems likely to make the world a worse place is news, and more relevantly, I don’t understand the connection to the anti-woke criticism of the industry. In this case Google’s bot won’t even answer “who won the 2020 US presidential election” so it’s at least a little centrist lol - I don't think the cultural marxists (supposedly) behind the green curtain would do that on purpose. But also super likely I’m misunderstanding! I’m saying all this bc this is what I took away from that link, might be looking in the wrong spot: Key areas of S&T’s AI research include computer vision for applications such as surveillance and screening systems and biometrics, and natural language processing for applications such as law enforcement and immigration services. Key use cases for AS include transportation (automotive, aerospace, maritime, and rail), utilities (water and wastewater, oil and gas, electric power, and telecommunications), and facility operations (security, energy management, environmental control, and safety).
    - janalsncm 3y ago
      > cultural marxists What is a cultural Marxist? I know what a Marxist is. I don’t know what a cultural Marxist is.
      - walthamstow 3y ago
        I believe it's a modern update of Cultural Bolshevism, an old Nazi term for Jewish influence on German culture, movies, etc. It was coined or popularised by Anders Breivik in his manifesto.
        TibbityFlanders 3y ago
        [dead]
      - the_optimist 3y ago
        It’s simply Marx through cultural influence. All this class and oppressor-oppressed theory, reliably useless and counterproductive nonsense (except for causing the people who embrace it to suffer in a bizarre application of reflexivity, if that’s your bag), falls in this category.
        the_optimist 3y ago
        Let’s just say, if you look at this and say “I don’t understand any of this, I will have to invest more time and maybe talk to some experts,” then this body of work is servicing its intended purpose: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_... Similarly, if you say “got it, how silly of me, this is so obvious,” the construction is also supported.
        bbor 3y ago
        Can you clarify…? I’m a bit slow. Like, believing that the conspiracy is true? By body of work, do you mean Marx / Frankfurt School, or the anti-cultural Marxism writings?
- EasyMark 3y ago
  ... yet. Isn't the internet yet. Wait until their only interface is through their AI model. Some of my friends call me cynical but I prefer skeptical because I have a lot of proof and experience behind me that somehow, in almost every case without regulation, these "innovations" wind up mostly benefitting the elite 0.1%
- jerf 3y ago
  Google’s poorly-thought-out half-baked 1-day-old product is another data point in an existing solid trend that is now months in the making. The conclusions people are coming to are not on the basis of one data point but quite a few, that form a distinct trend.
  - sk11001 3y ago
    Still, closed/locked-down/restricted/censored systems/products/platforms existing don't prevent open and free systems/products/platforms from existing.
kick_in_the_dor 3y ago
This view, while understandable, I believe is misaligned. All these companies care about is making money without getting sued for teaching people on the internet how to make pipe bombs or hallucinating medical advice that makes them sick.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  Can’t this be fixed with “Advice is provided as is and we’re not responsible of your cat dies”?
  - caeril 3y ago
    Yes, it is likely that a liability disclaimer would address this, but it doesn't address the deep psychological need of Google psychopaths to exercise power, control, authority, and to treat other people like children. AI "safety" is grounded in an impulse to control other people, and to declare oneself the moral superior to the rest of the human cattle. It has very little to do with actual safety. I vehemently disagree with Eliezer's safety stance, but at least it's a REAL safety stance, unlike that taken by Google, Microsoft, OpenAI, et. al. Hell, even the batshit crazy neo-luddite stance of nuking the datacenters and blowing up the GPU fabs is a better stance on AI safety than this corporate patronizing bullshit. Nobody there cares about reducing the risk of grey goo. They just want to make sure you know daddy's in charge, and he knows best.
  - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
    I doubt any major tech company is going to take that risk. Even if legally binding, the PR nightmare would hardly be worth the minimal reward.
  - pieresqi 3y ago
    [dead]
- caeril 3y ago
  > or hallucinating medical advice that makes them sick If your LLM hallucinates your diagnosis at a rate of 20%, and your doctor misdiagnoses you at a rate of 25% (I don't recall the real numbers, but they are on the order of this), who is the real danger, here? Preventable medical errors, including misdiagnosis, murders nearly a quarter million Americans per year, and these "safety" enthusiasts are out here concern-trolling about the double bad evil LLMs possibly giving you bad medical advice? Really?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bux93 3y ago
Because previously, if a forum poster, website or chatbot refused to divulge information, you'd force them to?
- mcphage 3y ago
  Yeah, that's how I got through college... I'd ask my homework assignments in a public forum, and if someone responded "I'm not doing your homework for you", I'd proceed it with "sudo" and they'd have to do it. It's the law.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pndy 3y ago
Microsoft already "works with journalists to create the newsrooms of the future with AI": https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2024/02/05/journalism-news-generative-ai-democracy-forward/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2024/02/05/journal... So, I'm not sure if I want to know how the world and the Internet will look like in 10-20 years to come with all these "safety brakes".
- pas 3y ago
  it looks already like that. Chomsky and manufacturing and all. false factoids flooding Facebook forever, contextless crowds' cries coming continuously. the culture war. those who have the luxury to put in time and effort to get the correct picture are just watching from the sidelines.
EasyMark 3y ago
This is why open source models must continue to develop, because I guess google (et al) don't just want information to show and sell ads, now they want to be the sole arbiters of it. That is scary, thanks for the morning heart attack/realization. "No Dave, that information wouldn't be good for you. Here are some pandas playing bongos"
xtracto 3y ago
I cant wait for the bittorrent "pirate" models without censoring or strings attached.

jimmySixDOF 3y ago

It was nice to see that hackernoon just released their whole history to free open source use so it's a small but meaningful counterpoint to people circling their information wagons and putting up fences.

sk11001 3y ago

Google’s poorly-thought-out half-baked 1-day-old product isn’t the internet.

robbyiq999 3y ago
> poorly-thought-out half-baked Like the 'DHS Artificial Intelligence Task Force'? https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/artificial-intelligence https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/artificial-intell...
- bbor 3y ago
  I don’t see how the US government investing in national security tech that seems likely to make the world a worse place is news, and more relevantly, I don’t understand the connection to the anti-woke criticism of the industry. In this case Google’s bot won’t even answer “who won the 2020 US presidential election” so it’s at least a little centrist lol - I don't think the cultural marxists (supposedly) behind the green curtain would do that on purpose. But also super likely I’m misunderstanding! I’m saying all this bc this is what I took away from that link, might be looking in the wrong spot: Key areas of S&T’s AI research include computer vision for applications such as surveillance and screening systems and biometrics, and natural language processing for applications such as law enforcement and immigration services. Key use cases for AS include transportation (automotive, aerospace, maritime, and rail), utilities (water and wastewater, oil and gas, electric power, and telecommunications), and facility operations (security, energy management, environmental control, and safety).
  - janalsncm 3y ago
    > cultural marxists What is a cultural Marxist? I know what a Marxist is. I don’t know what a cultural Marxist is.
    - walthamstow 3y ago
      I believe it's a modern update of Cultural Bolshevism, an old Nazi term for Jewish influence on German culture, movies, etc. It was coined or popularised by Anders Breivik in his manifesto.
      - TibbityFlanders 3y ago
        [dead]
    - the_optimist 3y ago
      It’s simply Marx through cultural influence. All this class and oppressor-oppressed theory, reliably useless and counterproductive nonsense (except for causing the people who embrace it to suffer in a bizarre application of reflexivity, if that’s your bag), falls in this category.
      - the_optimist 3y ago
        Let’s just say, if you look at this and say “I don’t understand any of this, I will have to invest more time and maybe talk to some experts,” then this body of work is servicing its intended purpose: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_... Similarly, if you say “got it, how silly of me, this is so obvious,” the construction is also supported.
        bbor 3y ago
        Can you clarify…? I’m a bit slow. Like, believing that the conspiracy is true? By body of work, do you mean Marx / Frankfurt School, or the anti-cultural Marxism writings?
EasyMark 3y ago
... yet. Isn't the internet yet. Wait until their only interface is through their AI model. Some of my friends call me cynical but I prefer skeptical because I have a lot of proof and experience behind me that somehow, in almost every case without regulation, these "innovations" wind up mostly benefitting the elite 0.1%
jerf 3y ago
Google’s poorly-thought-out half-baked 1-day-old product is another data point in an existing solid trend that is now months in the making. The conclusions people are coming to are not on the basis of one data point but quite a few, that form a distinct trend.
- sk11001 3y ago
  Still, closed/locked-down/restricted/censored systems/products/platforms existing don't prevent open and free systems/products/platforms from existing.

kick_in_the_dor 3y ago

This view, while understandable, I believe is misaligned. All these companies care about is making money without getting sued for teaching people on the internet how to make pipe bombs or hallucinating medical advice that makes them sick.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
Can’t this be fixed with “Advice is provided as is and we’re not responsible of your cat dies”?
- caeril 3y ago
  Yes, it is likely that a liability disclaimer would address this, but it doesn't address the deep psychological need of Google psychopaths to exercise power, control, authority, and to treat other people like children. AI "safety" is grounded in an impulse to control other people, and to declare oneself the moral superior to the rest of the human cattle. It has very little to do with actual safety. I vehemently disagree with Eliezer's safety stance, but at least it's a REAL safety stance, unlike that taken by Google, Microsoft, OpenAI, et. al. Hell, even the batshit crazy neo-luddite stance of nuking the datacenters and blowing up the GPU fabs is a better stance on AI safety than this corporate patronizing bullshit. Nobody there cares about reducing the risk of grey goo. They just want to make sure you know daddy's in charge, and he knows best.
- karmakurtisaani 3y ago
  I doubt any major tech company is going to take that risk. Even if legally binding, the PR nightmare would hardly be worth the minimal reward.
- pieresqi 3y ago
  [dead]
caeril 3y ago
> or hallucinating medical advice that makes them sick If your LLM hallucinates your diagnosis at a rate of 20%, and your doctor misdiagnoses you at a rate of 25% (I don't recall the real numbers, but they are on the order of this), who is the real danger, here? Preventable medical errors, including misdiagnosis, murders nearly a quarter million Americans per year, and these "safety" enthusiasts are out here concern-trolling about the double bad evil LLMs possibly giving you bad medical advice? Really?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bux93 3y ago

Because previously, if a forum poster, website or chatbot refused to divulge information, you'd force them to?

mcphage 3y ago
Yeah, that's how I got through college... I'd ask my homework assignments in a public forum, and if someone responded "I'm not doing your homework for you", I'd proceed it with "sudo" and they'd have to do it. It's the law.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pndy 3y ago

Microsoft already "works with journalists to create the newsrooms of the future with AI": https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2024/02/05/journalism-news-generative-ai-democracy-forward/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2024/02/05/journal... So, I'm not sure if I want to know how the world and the Internet will look like in 10-20 years to come with all these "safety brakes".

pas 3y ago
it looks already like that. Chomsky and manufacturing and all. false factoids flooding Facebook forever, contextless crowds' cries coming continuously. the culture war. those who have the luxury to put in time and effort to get the correct picture are just watching from the sidelines.

EasyMark 3y ago

This is why open source models must continue to develop, because I guess google (et al) don't just want information to show and sell ads, now they want to be the sole arbiters of it. That is scary, thanks for the morning heart attack/realization. "No Dave, that information wouldn't be good for you. Here are some pandas playing bongos"

xtracto 3y ago

I cant wait for the bittorrent "pirate" models without censoring or strings attached.