7 ms·
The Triumph and Terror of Wang Huning
- nine_k 3y agoWhile at it, I'd like to link a review of a book [1] which Wang Huning wrote about America, back in the day when he was studying in America, and was an important figure in the Deng Xiaoping's reform group. It's pretty entertaining, event though darkly so, and sometimes insightful. [1]: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/assistant-dictator-book-club-america https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/assistant-dictator-book-clu...
- wslh 3y agoWow, it seems very interesting. Thanks. It is always interesting how people from different cultures see others. I don't think we should underestimate the analysis of Wang.
- nine_k 3y agoI agree: what's interesting is not (only) the analysis, bit its discrepancy with our self-representation.
- yorwba 3y agoThe book review you linked offers the thesis that Wang Huning is mostly repackaging the American self-representation of the time for a Chinese audience: Commentaries on the book hold up Wang as some kind of incisive critic of US society. This was not my impression. My impression was that he opened a newspaper, read the criticisms Americans were making about themselves, and relayed them back to the Chinese. Any discrepancies are more likely to arise from drift over time and Wang's lack of affiliation with any American political tribe, so he freely mixes Democrat and Republican narratives. Republican media stress how Democrats suck, Democrat media stress how Republicans suck, outsiders consuming American media get the impression that Americans suck.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoTanner Greer has written essentially the same thing about the present: modern Chinese experts on America are just repeating what the American media says about the country. Seems like a loss to them (I don't think American self-conceptions are accurate enough to be worth studying) and to us (it would be nice to have better information out there). On the other hand, if all it takes to be an expert on America in China is reading some American newspapers, that does say some things about general Chinese cultural insulation from America.
- yorwba 3y agoOn the other hand, Tanner Greer also launched the Center for Strategic Translation because he thinks too many American decisionmakers do not know how to read Chinese newspapers. And fittingly enough, he announced it in Palladium: https://www.palladiummag.com/2022/11/14/why-we-need-the-center-for-strategic-translation/ https://www.palladiummag.com/2022/11/14/why-we-need-the-cent... ... anyone who read one of my pieces was separated from the original sources by at least two intermediate layers of analysis: my writing was a gloss of other people’s research, which itself was a summary of multiple sources in Chinese. This way of doing things is no longer sufficient. To resolve debates over China policy, all participants need to read what the Chinese are saying in their own words. Wise China policy will not be made until the generalists are able to access the same sources as the specialists.
- 2devnull 3y ago“ modern Chinese experts on America are just repeating what the American media says about the country.” There is no American media. There’s leftist American media and rightest American media. I’m guessing Chinese experts (who are leftists) cite leftist American media, not the Epoch Times.
- runlaszlorun 3y agoConsidering that the Epoch Times is run by Falun Gong - definitely no friend to the CCP - I’m sure they actually read the hell out of it.
- geysersam 3y agoDiscrepancy? Isn't it quite similar to a typical conservative / leftist view of contemporary USA? A mixture of the criticisms thrown at the status quo of center-liberalism.
- Onavo 3y agoThe HN submission of that blog post was flagged multiple times
- wslh 3y agoInteresting. It feels uneasy when there are criticism towards a culture and it is alike a tabu. The world and our actions are full of bias of prejudices. One formal publication that I always find rare and interesting in this context is [1]. [1] "Cultural Biases in Economic Exchange" https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w11005/w11005.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w11005/w110...
- walterbell 3y agoThanks for the interesting review. > “what do you unify your thoughts based on?” would be a good icebreaker question on dates.
- analognoise 3y agoThat was fascinating thank you.
- charlysl 3y agoMade me think of Sayyid Qutb's "The America I have seen": Qutb argues that the American way of life, with its focus on hedonism and consumerism, corrupts the moral self and reduces human relationships to short-lived pursuits of pleasure. Qutb sees the American focus on individual pleasure as primitive and animalistic, erasing the gravity of death and the sanctity of life He's the intellectual behind the modern jihad, distance 2 to a young Bin Landen.
- xhevahir 3y agoThis article about the surprising (to me, at least) influence of Carl Schmitt in China talks about Wang and his background. https://hedgehogreview.com/web-features/thr/posts/why-carl-schmitt-matters-to-china https://hedgehogreview.com/web-features/thr/posts/why-carl-s...
- throwaway167 3y agoDeng Xiaoping was not the successor to Mao. That was Hua Guofeng. An interim leader, but an important interim stopgap. I have no idea who N S Lyons is other than a substack author. There are many other small factual errors and romanticisms of writing in the piece, as well as avenues left unexplored not least if Confucianism is but an excuse for authoritarianism as it has been used by past dynasties who've tended to flip from Confucianism to Taoism, and sometimes other, to justify themselves. But that shouldn't shadow the subject at hand, which is casting some light on the limelight avoiding figure of Wang.
- canjobear 3y agoHua Guofeng seems analogous to Georgy Malenkov between Stalin and Khrushchev. Technically Malenkov was the successor to Stalin, but I wouldn't consider someone wrong for saying that Khrushchev was Stalin's successor. Maybe Hua was more significant though.
- maxglute 3y agoHe's one of the more cerebral / wordy writers like Tanner Greer that writes about US/PRC culture / how they foil each other. It's fine. Note this line in article: >This article by N.S. Lyons was originally published on Palladium Magazine on October 11, 2021. It was featured in PALLADIUM 09: Political Outcomes. The original article largely responsible for Huning wank in western PRC watching circles, IMO very over indexed now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- DaleNeumann 3y ago[flagged]
- corimaith 3y agoTo be honest, most of the world outside the West is more like Alex Jones than you might think. It's been interesting how similar the core desires of many communist movements or anti-imperalist were to conservative ideals, all to protect themselves from the encroachment of liberal western "degeneration". I recall the leaders of Al Qaeda got similar conclusions when they visited america and didnt like what they saw.
- pinewurst 3y agoI vaguely remember reading that the 1st moon landing is what really tipped over Osama bin Laden - talk about paleo-conservatism…
- jonstewart 3y agoPalladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Palladium skews towards genteel neoreactionarism. It won't be as overtly racist as moldbug's website. Its authors will use big words, write fine sentences, and have some academic credentials (though tend to be outside the mainstream). There's an obsession with planned economies and China, a mixture of anxiety that the US remain dominant with a certain longing for China's policies, and an inability to see those two things can never be consistent.
- IncreasePosts 3y ago[flagged]
- speed_spread 3y ago1) That's my line. 2) OP's comment is what I come here for.
- cobertos 3y agoWhat is meant by this? Is the parent comment not on topic or useful? Because I'm failing to see why
- alisonatwork 3y agoThanks for this comment. It's been a strange journey for me following this magazine, where at first it seemed like they were writing about topics that other western media were not, but eventually it became dominated by well-worn talking points of the American right. Or perhaps the American right shifted in the direction of this magazine? Either way, it all started to feel a bit tedious so I gave up.
- 15457345234 3y agoTheir article 'Complex systems won't survive the competence crisis' was an interesting read and made some good points, it appeared that they were approaching the issue from a perspective of troubleshooting and rectification, i.e. genuine governance. Other articles give the impression that they're more into the 'nuclear lifeboat'/'galt's gulch' strategy and give off sinister vibes. I personally wouldn't use the word 'cryptofascist' but others might. Like you I have the same conclusion... interesting at first, gets alarming & repetitive.
- ginko 3y agoWhy do foreign scholars always look at the US as an example of Western democratic society rather than, say Switzerland or Finland?
- saiya-jin 3y agoBecause its easy work, especially if you want to follow already set narrative. Why show how things can work in capitalism if population is smart, hard working, moral, and government is small and effective? With parts having tons of independence? Thats literally the opposite of their system. You can't bring the proverbial evils of capitalism when talking about happiest societies in the world, which both are based on capitalism and personal freedom.
- brazzy 3y agoBecause it's the largest, most dominant one by pretty much any metric you can think of: area, population, GDP, military influence, cultural influence, whatever.
- azmodeus 3y agoBetter look at the sovereign, the rest of the western democratic world stands on the shoulder of the United States military
- hoseja 3y agoad. penultimate paragraph: Why should the population grow forever? Humanity swelled to ten times or more its size since the industrial revolution; there may be some correction. Supposed "humanists" justify themselves with talk about there being unlimited "economies of scale" with more people but I am skeptical.
- steve76 3y ago[dead]